Just wow. Let's go after Ann Romney: moveon.org Who cares if she has MS? Who cares if she's not running for office? After all, she's rich!

Or, how about Harry Reid?

"I am not basing this on some figment of my imagination," Reid said in a telephone call with Nevada reporters. "I have had a number of people tell me that."

Asked to elaborate on his sources, Reid declined. "No, that's the best you're going to get from me."

"I don't think the burden should be on me," Reid said. "The burden should be on him. He's the one I've alleged has not paid any taxes. Why didn't he release his tax returns?"

In other words, someone told Reid that and until Romney proves otherwise, he did it.

Someone told me the President . . . (fill in the blank). He's guilty until he proves otherwise.

Baseless attacks, going after family members . . . Democratic politics at its finest!

Welll let's look at what Romney says.'Romney was unable to say whether he had ever paid less than the 13.9% tax rate he paid in 2010. 'I haven’t calculated that. I’m happy to go back and look, but my view is I’ve paid all the taxes required by law,' Romney told ABC’s David Muir." http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/29 ... t-20120729

Parsing these words, Romseys says he hadn't calculated that. If he paid zero taxes that would still be a true statement. He would be happy to go back and look (of course he hasn't) and even if he paid zero taxes he could still believe he was in compliance with US tax laws. See now neatly that statement can be squared with paying zero taxes?

If he paid a little less, I would expect him to say something like I don't know the exact percentages but they were in that ballpark or I paid substantially the same rate of taxes. He gave a "lawyer-like" answer.

Nope, DF we are not letting him off the hook on these tax returns. From the way he answered that question it appears that at the very least he paid substantially less than 13.9%. Else, why the dodge and why the refusal to release tax returns? I now get why he isn't going to release those tax returns--you can't run for president and not pay taxes, it simply is not possible. He'll never release those tax returns. So, yes, we are going to hammer him on this issue, because really the only reason not to release tax returns is because he paid a very low rate of taxes. He knew he was running for president, but apparently acquiring even more wealth was more important.

freeman2 wrote:Welll let's look at what Romney says.'Romney was unable to say whether he had ever paid less than the 13.9% tax rate he paid in 2010. 'I haven’t calculated that. I’m happy to go back and look, but my view is I’ve paid all the taxes required by law,' Romney told ABC’s David Muir." http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/29 ... t-20120729

Parsing these words, Romseys says he hadn't calculated that. If he paid zero taxes that would still be a true statement. He would be happy to go back and look (of course he hasn't) and even if he paid zero taxes he could still believe he was in compliance with US tax laws. See now neatly that statement can be squared with paying zero taxes?

So . . . you have no evidence, but you don't mind "guilty until proven innocent?"

How fair of you!

If he paid a little less, I would expect him to say something like I don't know the exact percentages but they were in that ballpark or I paid substantially the same rate of taxes. He gave a "lawyer-like" answer.

Uh-huh, because he never commits gaffes, right? He's so carefully scripted he never says something untoward?

Nope, DF we are not letting him off the hook on these tax returns.

Who can blame you? After all, if you have to defend the President's record . . . far better to make up stuff about Romney.

You know . . . maybe he's a front man for a Martian invasion. Can he prove he's not?

From the way he answered that question it appears that at the very least he paid substantially less than 13.9%. Else, why the dodge and why the refusal to release tax returns?

We already know the answer to the "why not release more?" It's pretty simple: release hundreds of pages, have thousands of questions to answer--that are entirely irrelevant.

Seriously, how many documents has the President refused to release? I listed 10 some time ago, including the Rezko property deal.

I now get why he isn't going to release those tax returns--you can't run for president and not pay taxes, it simply is not possible.

He ran four years ago. Explain that. Oh, and please, take off the tinfoil hat before you do.

He'll never release those tax returns. So, yes, we are going to hammer him on this issue, . . .

Good! Your man is as pure as the driven snow. It just so happens that he associates with felons: Rezko, Ayers, Dorn, and who knows how many others. Want to get into character attacks? How about the spouse issue? Should the Republicans go after Michele? It's not as difficult as it seems, but thankfully, so far, they have resisted the urge.

. . . because really the only reason not to release tax returns is because he paid a very low rate of taxes. He knew he was running for president, but apparently acquiring even more wealth was more important.

I've given you another reason. It should be obvious. That you can't see it simply reveals your blindness.

Doctor Fate wrote:Someone told me the President . . . (fill in the blank). He's guilty until he proves otherwise.

"Someone told me the President wasn't born in the USA. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

"Someone told me the President wasn't Christian, he's Muslim. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

"Someone told me the President is a communist. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

How am I doing?

Baseless attacks, going after family members . . . politics at its finest!

I edited your quote slightly, but agreed. While I don't really care if Romney didn't pay any taxes - assuming it was done legally, mind you - it's just as pathetic that the Democrats feel the need to attack him on this front as any of the attacks against the President that I referenced above.

freeman2 wrote:Nope, DF we are not letting him off the hook on these tax returns. From the way he answered that question it appears that at the very least he paid substantially less than 13.9%. Else, why the dodge and why the refusal to release tax returns?

Why dodge the question? Because if he says anything specific and ends up being wrong, he gets hammered by even more attack ads. He would be stupid to say anything differently.

I now get why he isn't going to release those tax returns--you can't run for president and not pay taxes, it simply is not possible. He'll never release those tax returns. So, yes, we are going to hammer him on this issue, because really the only reason not to release tax returns is because he paid a very low rate of taxes. He knew he was running for president, but apparently acquiring even more wealth was more important.

I challenge you to find one single person who has the ability to claim a deduction but doesn't, simply because they feel that they need to pay a bigger share.

Your last comment is the most unfortunate. Has it really become a requirement for someone thinking about running for President to stop wanting to acquire more wealth? "I'm sorry sir, you are going to have to stop acquiring wealth for the next 10 years if you want to become President. We don't respect someone who uses their brain in this country."

SuperAnt wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Someone told me the President . . . (fill in the blank). He's guilty until he proves otherwise.

"Someone told me the President wasn't born in the USA. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

"Someone told me the President wasn't Christian, he's Muslim. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

"Someone told me the President is a communist. He's guilty until he proves otherwise."

How am I doing?

100% fine.

Baseless attacks, going after family members . . . politics at its finest!

I edited your quote slightly, but agreed. While I don't really care if Romney didn't pay any taxes - assuming it was done legally, mind you - it's just as pathetic that the Democrats feel the need to attack him on this front as any of the attacks against the President that I referenced above.

I agree--if they're all based on hearsay, which Reid (and Stephanie Cutter, Obama's spokeswoman) engaged in.

To me, the worst is probably moveon going after Romney's wife. That is lower than gutter politics.

How did moveon go after Ann Romney?

Ray Jay wrote:How did moveon go after Ann Romney?

I posted the video in the initial post--they're mocking the whole dressage thing. A horse voice talks about how they spend $77K a year on the horse.

Nothing wrong with accumulating wealth, SuperAnt, but I guarantee youRomney will not elected if he did not pay any taxes and he made tens of millions of dollars. "Ask not what you can do your country, ask what you can do for your country". Imagine Romney asking his fellow Americans to do anything when he has not paid any taxes.

As for your comparing attacks on Obama with Romney, they are not the same. First, a candidate should release tax returns for at least five years--paying taxes is part of the primary duties of being a citizen. If you want to be president, it is fair game for us to know that you have been paying your fair share of taxes. You may not care if Romney did not pay taxes, but a lot of Americans do. Do you have a plausible reason as to why Romney has not released tax returns? You don't because there is none. He is hiding something and the way he answered that tax question indicates its because he paid a level of taxes that he knows the average American will not accept. At the end of the day, Obama had to release his birth certificate and that was in a situation where there was no absolutely no evidence that he was not born in this country. The way he should deal with this situation is release his tax returns. If he doesn't do that then I think we are entilted to think there is something wrong there. Your analogies are not applicable because there is substantial reason to think there is something wrong with the tax returns, whereas there was no reason to think that Obama was a communist, muslim, or not born in this country.

DF, looks like a majority of Americans want to see those tax returns.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/19 ... s-20120719

Apparently, they feel there tax returns are relevant. And I am sure you know that a number of prominent Republicans have urged him to release those returns. The rest of your post is comparing apples and oranges--tax returns are different than the things you referenced. If Romney refused to release internal Bain documents, then that would be comparable.

DF they weren't going after his wife--they were trying to paint Romney as an out-of-touch rich guy. Unfortunately, the attack backfired when his wife said she got the horse to help with her MS.

freeman2 wrote:DF they weren't going after his wife--they were trying to paint Romney as an out-of-touch rich guy. Unfortunately, the attack backfired when his wife said she got the horse to help with her MS.

I know someone who died from MS. Not sure how a horse would have helped her much, least of all an Olympic standard eventing horse. Mind you, the NHS won't give out a horse on prescription, just showing how woeful our health services are compared to the best of the USA's.

But I did have the same question as Ray Jay. They were talking about a horse, one who has more spent on it than the average working American earns in a year. At no point was Anne Romney mentioned by name, or in any way other than under 'the Romneys'. So, that means (of course) that the partisan hacks on the right have to jump up and down as if they kicked her crutches away or something.

Reid appears to have gone overboard, although it's not clear where he gets it from - maybe his mysterious source is on the level, maybe it's a crock.

Doctor Fate wrote:

Ray Jay wrote:How did moveon go after Ann Romney?

I posted the video in the initial post--they're mocking the whole dressage thing. A horse voice talks about how they spend $77K a year on the horse.

I saw the video ... it's really goes after Mitt and his proposals, using the horse as a foil (that may be a pun if you have a Brooklyn accent). It doesn't mention Ann by name or reference MS in any way.

(cross posted with Danivon)

Ray Jay wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:

Ray Jay wrote:How did moveon go after Ann Romney?

I posted the video in the initial post--they're mocking the whole dressage thing. A horse voice talks about how they spend $77K a year on the horse.

I saw the video ... it's really goes after Mitt and his proposals, using the horse as a foil (that may be a pun if you have a Brooklyn accent). It doesn't mention Ann by name or reference MS in any way.

(cross posted with Danivon)

She has horses as therapy--if they want to go after his wealth, there are other means. For example, they can lie about his taxes . . . oh wait, there already doing that.

Maybe I should start another forum: How Democrats accumulate wealth. Let's see, there's Reid's real estate deal where he used his position to make money; there's Obama's real estate "steal" from a convicted felon . . . could be fun.

freeman2 wrote:Nothing wrong with accumulating wealth, SuperAnt, but I guarantee youRomney will not elected if he did not pay any taxes and he made tens of millions of dollars. "Ask not what you can do your country, ask what you can do for your country". Imagine Romney asking his fellow Americans to do anything when he has not paid any taxes.

As for your comparing attacks on Obama with Romney, they are not the same. First, a candidate should release tax returns for at least five years--paying taxes is part of the primary duties of being a citizen. If you want to be president, it is fair game for us to know that you have been paying your fair share of taxes. You may not care if Romney did not pay taxes, but a lot of Americans do. Do you have a plausible reason as to why Romney has not released tax returns? You don't because there is none. He is hiding something and the way he answered that tax question indicates its because he paid a level of taxes that he knows the average American will not accept. At the end of the day, Obama had to release his birth certificate and that was in a situation where there was no absolutely no evidence that he was not born in this country. The way he should deal with this situation is release his tax returns. If he doesn't do that then I think we are entilted to think there is something wrong there. Your analogies are not applicable because there is substantial reason to think there is something wrong with the tax returns, whereas there was no reason to think that Obama was a communist, muslim, or not born in this country.

You're getting a bad case of rickyp--hint: repeating the same thing ad nauseum does not strengthen your argument. You've read two plausible reasons for not releasing more tax returns, but instead of defeating those arguments, you simply claim (again) there is none.

Actually, there is evidence Obama was not born in this country. But, no worries, someone who lists him as a current client says she made a mistake in 1991. I mean, it's not like she would make money off of future books or anything . . .

A possible source of the so-called "birther" issue--or at least a potential cause of the rumors that have dogged President Barack Obama--has been identified.

Obama's former literary agency misidentified his birthplace as Kenya while trying to promote the then-Harvard Law grad as an author in 1991.

According to a promotional booklet produced by the agency, Acton & Dystel, to showcase its roster of writers, Obama was "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."

Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

"This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me--an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote in an emailed statement to Yahoo News. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

Now, do I believe he was born in Kenya? No, but I've just produced more evidence than you have. Someone who worked for him and still does who said he was born in Kenya.

Seriously, is there one iota of evidence for the tax claims now made on the FLOOR of the SENATE by the MAJORITY LEADER?

He’s refused to release his tax returns, as we know. If a person coming before this body wanted to be a cabinet officer, he couldn’t be if he did the same refusal Mitt Romney does about tax returns. So the word’s out that he hasn’t paid any taxes for ten years. Let him prove that he has paid taxes, because he hasn’t. We already know from one partial tax return that he gave us, he has money hidden in Bermuda, the Cayman Islands, and a Swiss bank account. Not making that up, that’s in the partial year that he gave us. Mitt Romney makes more money in a single day than the average middle-class family makes in two years–or more.

What is that--other than the same tactics McCarthy once used?

Reid previously said Romney's deceased father would be ashamed. Jon Stewart took offense at that:

“As someone who has truly and thoroughly disappointed his still-living father on many occasions, let me just say, that is a b******* shot.”

Fascinating that liberals see nothing as being out of bounds--as long as its about Romney.

Keep it classy!

Doctor Fate wrote:She has horses as therapy--if they want to go after his wealth, there are other means.

I'm still confused as to how owning such a horse and spending so much on it is the only therapy that's available.

Fascinating that liberals see nothing as being out of bounds--as long as its about Romney.

So Jon Stewart isn't a Liberal now? And anyone else who says something like... "Reid appears to have gone overboard".

What you mean by 'Liberals" seems to be 'a Liberal - Harry Reid'