I just read a report that said Kim Jong il has died. What does this mean for North Korea? Will it be an clean orderly transition or not. I remember reading somewhere that his 3rd son is his heir apparent but was not well liked.

"First Hitchens, now L'il Kim - bad week for atheists!" Bill Maher

I'm pretty sure that there have been suggestions that he was dead (or basically dying) for months, since Kim Jong-Un was promoted to some generalship.

What does it mean? some defensive posturing (that missile into the sea was basically a 'Do not get involved' warning) and perhaps some shuffling of the seats of power, but a desperate need to maintain the regime.

If there's any revolutionary opposition, we are not going to find out about it until pretty late.

"First Hitchens, now L'il Kim - bad week for atheists!" Bill Maher

Well the death of Hitchens has inspired me to go out and read God is Not Great, which I'm thoroughly enjoying, and the death of Kim can surely only be a cause for celebration. So actually it's been a pretty good week for this atheist.

And of course, Christmas is coming up, and even atheists like to get presents and drink egg-nog.

Yes, and perhaps all atheists can join together to give a special prayer for the poor people of North Korea whose stockings are empty yet again.

Prayers won't do much for them, will they? I'd gladly contribute to aid for them instead.

With Christmas coming up, and all atheists not believing in any deity, why are they drinking egg nog and getting presents? Wouldn't be like any other day?

Qaddfi, bin Laden, Lil Kim. Bad year for nasty guys. Good year for everyone else.

Because egg-nog rocks, and giving and receiving presents is a nice thing to do. Also, there's 'cultural conformity', government mandated holidays and all that stuff. It would be a 'normal day' if I had to go to work (or even could) or could go to the shops or the pub, or if there was decent TV instead of holiday-themed drivel.

Oh, and we may be related to, married to or friends with Christians. Similarly, my mate, who is English to the core, celebrates Thanksgiving and the 4th July because he's married to an American.

I spend about as much time thinking about the Baby Jesus as most 'christians' who celebrate Christmas, I expect (and that's not 'none', I do think a bit about Christ, mainly "if he does come back, boy is he gonna be annoyed"). Most of the things associated with Christmas are nothing to do with Christ or Christianity originally, but are appropriated from pre-Christian practices. For example, there's no evidence that Jesus was born in December - the shepherds thing suggests that he was not - but the timing works with a load of midwinter festivals like that of Sol Invictus, based on the passing of the Solstice. Seeing as my great-granddad was a druid, I'm as much following his traditions as I am any Christian ancestors.

I was at a carol concert last night. Ok, so it was in the pub, but it was pretty cool.

Anyway, Kim Jong Il, bit of a git. His son? Probably is too, and will be the puppet of a load of gits.

geojanes wrote:Qaddfi, bin Laden, Lil Kim. Bad year for nasty guys. Good year for everyone else.

Look, I know that ABDC is an abomination that brings woe and infamy to the world...

Oh, that's Lil' Mama. I always confuse her with Lil' Kim. And Lil' Kim is still out there, although her career has been a bit low since the jail term.

With Christmas coming up, and all atheists not believing in any deity, why are they drinking egg nog and getting presents? Wouldn't be like any other day?

In fairness, I almost certainly won't be drinking any egg-nog....

My family has never been religious but we've always had fun at Christmas. It may seem incredible to you, but atheists also enjoy good food, getting drunk, giving and receiving gifts and spending time with their families.

I don't celebrate Easter though.

It was tongue in cheek. Just having fun. Christmas is a religious holiday that many people celebrate in non-religious ways(including Christians!). I wish ALL my Redscape friends a very merry Christmas. P.S. I like Egg Nog as well, but my wife thinks I like it too much... It is tough being a fat little German guy...

And a very Merry Christmas to you Brad !

But anyway, Kim Jon-il....

Kim Jong not ill, Kim Jong Dead!