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Post 27 Jun 2022, 3:23 am

We all know that I disagree with the J6 events, and have said that President Trump and the Protesters were wrong for their actions.

My questions are where are the others who condemned the J6 actions of people angry about the result of the election? They seem to be silent about:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/vermont-statehouse-vandalized-abortion-protest-rcna35352
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10952241/Pro-choice-activists-tear-gassed-breach-Arizona-Capitol-building.html
https://wgntv.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturned/10-arrested-in-oregon-night-of-rage-protest-over-scotus-roe-v-wade-decision/
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/lapd-arrest-man-accused-of-attacking-officer-with-torch-during-abortion-rights-protests/

There are more, btw. Neither the J6 or the J24 is happy with the government result. My point is the insurrectionist threats are wrong from BOTH sides.

The silence is deafening...
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Post 27 Jun 2022, 8:59 am

Please. Jan 6th was an attack to stop the government from taking action to transfer power. It was an insurrection.

Protests over Roe V Wade are protests, which are constitutionally protected speech. It is unfortunate that some got out of hand and damage was done, but no one was trying to break into the Supreme Court and hang Clarence Thomas. If they did, then the equivalency you're making could be valid. But there is no equivalency here. Not even a little bit.
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Post 27 Jun 2022, 9:59 am

I think breaking into Arizona Government buildings to try to rescind the decision of the Supreme Court is a bit more than "protected free speech".

I do not have ANY problem with the protesting of decisions. I do have a problem with the examples I gave above.

I do think the two sides of this are similar. Yes, J6 was an attempt to circumvent the transfer of power, and I do not support it. It was a bunch of yahoos that are being riled up by someone in power (Trump)

J24 was an attempt to derail the Supreme Court decisions, and I do not support it. It is a bunch of yahoos that are being riled up by people in power (Schumer, AOC, Maxine Waters et. al.)

The big difference is that Trump was not supported by the rest of the party.

I must ask, however, what the big issue that some states are not choosing to have full abortion allowed up until the second before birth? If you do not want that, then do the following:
1) Go to a state that does allow it.
2) Vote for representatives that support your views.
3) DO NOT DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL TO SHOW YOUR DISPLEASURE

I have dealt with this way of thinking for many years. I had to. In Eastern Washington, we are basically Conservative and overruled with all legislation by the Liberal west side of the state (Seattle/Tacoma). I never once wrote anything on a sidewalk or broke windows, let alone break into Government offices to express my displeasure.

I say this to those that wish to overturn the Supreme Court decisions.
1) Vote locally
2) Understand that elections matter (3 USSC put in by Trump)
3) Amend the Constitution if the will of the people is there.

GeoJanes,
You are above the "Trump bad" retort. It is wrong what these yahoos are doing. A threat against Justice Kavanaugh and his family can be added to the above list of non-peaceful protests. We both agree that Trump was wrong. Your bias is showing. These protesters/criminals are wrong, and they are being fomented by the firebrands on the left. Also, these protesters are protesting primarily in states where abortion will remain as it is. In NY, CA, WA, OR, VT, CO, you can still kill a baby in utero, and yank it out in pieces up until birth. If a more conservative state chooses otherwise, it should not bother those in NY or CA.

Side note: I do not think a torch being used against a police office if a form of "Constitutionally protected speech"
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 6:26 am

bbauska

J24 was an attempt to derail the Supreme Court decisions


Exactly how?

On Jan 6; There was a specific plan to disrupt the electoral college count and replace state electors ... So a plan. But Jan 24?
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 9:38 am

Strongly agree with what George said. January 6th and abortion protests are not remotely comparable. It's 1984ish speech to compare the two, to minimize an organized coup attempt by the President by comparing it to a few powerless protesters who acted excessively

You got to expect people to be an unhappy when the Court takes away a long-established right after an decades long attempt to stack the court by the Federalist Society (recruiting members as early as law school in an effort to get anti--abortion justices on the court)the machinations of McConnell to get conservative justices on the court (including blocking Obama's cabinet appointments and lower federal judicial appointments which forced Reed to get rid of the filibuster for that which McConnell then used as justification to get rid of the filibuster for Supreme Court Justices, allowing extreme justices to be confirmed like Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett; also blocking Garland being considered for a year on a ludicrous justication), and the mysterious retirement of justice Kennedy after pressure from Trump.

We have a unrepresentative court with all 6 conservative justices being catholic so the Federalist Society can get their extreme agenda implemented. These justices are out of control, running roughshod over stare decisis. The Court has little legitimacy because it was intentionally stacked by the Federalist Society and making deeply unpopular decisions. The fact that the Court doesnt care is some indication that conservatives think they can rule without being the majority. Kind of anti-democratic don't you think?

I try to stay out of these arguments--they don't do any good--but when Brad says January 24th (there is no such thing btw because it wasn't that significant)is like Jan 6th...that's just, well, I want to stay polite. It's not a reasonable argument.

And it worries me greatly that Brad thinks this way. Because that likely means a lot of the country thinks similarly. And that doesn't bode well. Conservatives are rushing headlong with our democracy towards a cliff with Trump at the reins...and it doesn't look like they are going to stop.
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 9:48 am

By the way Brad conservatives will likely try to codify getting rid of abortion if they get control of Congress and the presidency in 2024. So going to a Blue state to live will not necessarily help. And justice Thomas indicated that they should reconsider decisions based on right to privacy/personal autonomy rights/-reproductive rights so gay /contraceptive /even inter-racial marriage rights are in jeopardy. Justice Aloto's analysis put all those rights in jeopardy...
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 9:48 am

Let me be perfectly clear...

J6 WAS WRONG.

SO ARE THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES COMMITTED IN THE NAME OF PROTEST.

Is that clear enough? I worry about those who cannot say there is a problem because something is worse. I am saying BOTH are wrong. I am not going to say the illegal protest criminal activities are not applicable because J6 is worse. They are both wrong. I don't give a rip that J6 is worse.

As a pastor of mine said; "Sin is sin. Both keep you from Heaven. It is conceited and self-righteous to protect one sin over another"
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 9:59 am

Perhaps the Left's control of Congress, presidency and SC was the time to codify these laws of killing fetuses up until the time of birth. If it is so important, it should have been done.

Do not blame the Conservatives for doing what the Liberals wouldn't.
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 10:02 am

It matters. You have to be able to compare different levels of wrongness. You cant lump everything together. How it would sound if someone said sin is sin, Stalin and Hitler committed sins, let's not rank their sins to other people's sins.

Here, the difference between a few powerless people committing vandalism is a whole lot different than a sitting president organizing an extensive plot to interfere with the transfer of power. January 6th struck at our ability to continue functioning as a democracy; excessive abortion protests can be easily handled by the criminal justice system. See the difference?
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 10:11 am

"Perhaps the Left's control of Congress, presidency and SC was the time to codify these laws of killing fetuses up until the time of birth. If it is so important, it should have been done."

Do not blame the Conservatives for doing what the Liberals wouldn't."

And we should do that (not to the point of birth--viability like Roe) Absolutely. But Manchin and Sinema are blocking that and Biden won't pressure them so that's that. Anyway, I was just responding to your claim that people could just move.

I notice you are using loaded language about fetuses. A lot of women will die as a result of having no abortion right-- you know that right? Not to mention all the social problems created by having to raise unwanted babies and the social and economic effects of women not having access to abortion -(and perhaps coming soon lack of access to contraception)
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 10:53 am

I do not think it is loaded language. I use the language of those who are pro-choice. The baby is called a fetus. I describe the procedure that Planned Parenthood wants to have not until viability, but until the time of birth.

SO, A FETUS is KILLED at an abortion procedure. (Agree? Yes?)
This procedure is not until viability, but until the time of birth. (Agree? Yes?)

I think that people upset with the Senators in question should vote them out. I would love to see Manchin and Sinema gone. Please help make that happen!

I have no problem for contraception, as long as it pre-conception.

Pro-choice people have to make that thing called a choice about their sexuality. I would hope that most know that sex can cause pregnancy. Not all contraception is 100% efficient. They need to decide if it is worth the risk to have sex, even with contraception. of getting pregnant. That is the CHOICE they have to make. The Supreme Court is not prohibiting sexual relations outside of marriage. That would be wrong. Pro-choice should mean that you are given the choice to perform an action along with the responsibility for the possible results of that action.

You want loaded language? The responsibility results in a baby. It should not be killed. even if it is a "Fetus".

I also agree with you that Biden is a coward.
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 11:12 am

I think I'll just stop at this point. Hope you're enjoying your retirement, Brad, and seeing the USA.
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 11:37 am

freeman3 wrote:I think I'll just stop at this point. Hope you're enjoying your retirement, Brad, and seeing the USA.


Thank you for the kind missives. I am in Maine! It is beautiful.
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Post 28 Jun 2022, 2:34 pm

Sounds great!
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Post 29 Jun 2022, 5:55 am

bbauska wrote:
freeman3 wrote:I think I'll just stop at this point. Hope you're enjoying your retirement, Brad, and seeing the USA.


Thank you for the kind missives. I am in Maine! It is beautiful.


Let me know if you plan on coming to the Bay State.