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Post 28 Sep 2020, 4:33 pm

Tomorrow night, Tuesday, September 29, 2020, the north going Zax will meet up with the south going Zax. Somewhere in Cleveland, Ohio they shall stand face to face, refusing to budge and insisting that the other get out of their way.

Prior to their respective lobotomies I would have advised the following for both camps:

For Trump:

"Joe, you've been a politician for the past 50 plus years. In that time you've waffled back and forth on an index of topics. Because of your long career, many see you as the embodiment of the DC swamp. I agree.

On the other hand, I've been a politician for not quite 4 years. And whether you agree with my policies or not, I've done more in 4 years than you did in 50 plus years.

For example, I have ......(fill in blank.)

Conclusion: A vote for you is a vote for the country spinning its wheels again. We can't go back to that Joe."

For Biden:

"Mr. President, your legacy for the ages will be the fact that you have absolutely succeeded in dividing us as Americans. Never before have families and friends given up bothering to discuss politics as they have today. Why?
For fear of losing those precious relationships. In fact, no family in America points to you as a leader or a hero. On the contrary, you are an embarrassment to our youth and quite honestly, your own party.

This November you will become a flash in the pan.. A bad dream that America once had. And all of your vitriol, derision, pompous claims, wounded ego and little hands syndrome antics are NOT going to help you this time.

Your days are numbered. It's time to start thinking about your next life adventure. Maybe another TV show or golf course or book on how you beat the system and avoided paying your taxes all these years. Anything but being President of the United States again. Lets leave that for the seasoned professionals."

Conclusion: A vote for you is a vote for more chaos, uncertainty and division. We are not the Divided States of America Mr. President.

In this alternative universe, Donald would sound more like Joe (prior to dementia) and Joe would sound more like Trump.

This will not only confuzzle the at home viewers and garner more votes from both from their bases but it will also leave the "on the fence" voters completely bamboozled.

All this to say, ROUND ONE may end up a draw.

Your predictions?
Last edited by dag hammarsjkold on 28 Sep 2020, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 28 Sep 2020, 6:47 pm

Well, I guess I am looking for the following:


(1) Biden in responding to an attack by Trump--maybe on Hunter Biden-- staring him down, looking him hard in the eye and having his "have you no decency, sir" moment.
(2) Biden pointing out that Trump has appointed extreme right-wing justices that are likely to end the ACA and take away health care for millions of American and eliminate coverage for pre-existing conditions and also overturn Roe v Wade.
(3) Trump promised to end an American carnage in his Inauguration Speech which did not exist but he has created carnage in his racially divisive comments and incompetent handling of Covid. Reagan's Morning in America...is Trump's Mourning in America. (feel free to use that line Biden)
(4) Biden offer up an optimistic vision of America where people of different races, religions, and beliefs come together in a positive fusion of different peoples..contrasted with Trump's dystopic vision of conflict.
(5) Trump absurdly not paying any taxes due to some kind of fraudulent shell game. How can our president--supposedly a billionaire--not pay any taxes and yet expect those with more limited means to do so. It's a terrible example.
(6) Trump's kowtowing to Russia and single-handedly trying to destroy the Pax Americana which helped deter aggression against the West since WWII.
(7) Trump's attacks on democratic institutions like the judiciary, the press, and the rule of law. Which must please Putin very much (as did his attempt to undermine NATO). His refusal to respond to Russia's interference with our elections.
(8) Trump's misogyny. Access Hollywood, paying porn stars, sexual assault accusations. You got to get those surburban soccer moms! Although this may be an area that Biden might avoid just given his own alleged misbehavior.
(9) Drain the swamp? The Trump Administration has been rife with scandals. Trump has all kinds of conflicts of interest where businesses, countries, have had people stay at his hotels golf courses, etc. pretty obviously to gain influence. Trump is the Swamp.
(10) The Liar in Chief. Reminiscent of a totalitarian country
(11) Hes a fascist. Has refused to agree to a peaceful transfer of power, which even if he doesnt seriously mean it (who knows...fact of the matter he is going to jail for a very long time if he loses so it would not surprise me if he doesnt concede) could incite his followers to riot.
(12) Trump's prowess on the economy? His tax returns show his businesses lose a ton of money, he lost 915 million in one year, his casinos failed, hes filed bankruptcy more than once. He got a ton of money from his Daddy, he make a lot of money from licensing deals, and his best "business" was a fake one (ie, The Apprentice).Trump: "I am not a businessman but I played one on the Apprentice."

Honestly, if this were a high school debate topic...the Trump team would cry unfair. Biden should crush him, he has so much material to choose from.
Last edited by freeman3 on 29 Sep 2020, 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post 28 Sep 2020, 10:30 pm

Biden should crush him, he has so much material to choose from.


He'll just need to remember the material.
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Post 29 Sep 2020, 2:10 am

The problem with that line of attack that Trump has used is that Biden has done well in prior debates, it's an easy bar for Biden to clear, and it makes it a lot more likely that Biden will be considered to have won the debate. Obviously, it would be devastating if Biden makes such serious gaffes that Trump's narrative plays...but I expect Biden to show he is not cognitively impaired.
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Post 29 Sep 2020, 12:06 pm

dag
In this alternative universe, Donald would sound more like Joe (prior to dementia) and Joe would sound more like Trump.


Just for clarification, is it Trump you think has dementia, or Biden?

The reason Trump was given the Montreal Cognitive Test was that physicians were concerned that he may have suffered a mini stroke (back in November 2019 when he was rushed to Walter Reed) and was perhaps impaired. There's been evidence in public of physical and mental impairment as well. (two hands on a glass of water, shuffling down a ramp etc). Now, he's always been a bit of a babbler, so I'd say the odds are tonight he'll sound confused or incoherent at least twice...

Biden has a long long history of verbal gaffes. Making verbal gaffes would not be evidence of Biden slipping. Maybe something else will surface, but he does have a history of physical activity and fitness. Trump? No so much. And usually, not always, physical fitness keeps one mentally fit too....
He'll still blow a name or make some other gaffe tonight. Because, well, he's Joe. But I'll bet he'll cope with Trump better than Hillary did. In part because - apparently Covid means they will be planted at their lecterns...
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 5:27 am

No one predicted what really happened.

Trump came across as a deranged lunatic.

Biden came across as normal.

By interrupting too much, Trump didn't give Biden a chance to say something really stupid.

Trump is dangerous by saying that the election will be fraudulent and that the Proud Boys should "Stand By" which is very different than "Stand Down". On the other hand, I wish Biden had denounced Antifa instead of saying they don't really exist as an organization.

Round 1: Biden
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 8:13 am

ray
On the other hand, I wish Biden had denounced Antifa instead of saying they don't really exist as an organization.

Since the FBI doesn't believe they are an organization, only an ideology, he's being accurate isn't he? .

Isn't it strange for an American President to be against Anti-Facism? I mean isn't that why WW2 was fought ?

On the other hand, the Proud Boys are basically Trumps "Brown Shirts" who he's waiting to unleash on the streets.
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 9:24 am

Well, I wasnt that pleased. Admittedly it was extraordinarily difficult dealing with such a jerk...but to me Biden came into that debate looking to play it safe and I thinks he needs to more aggressively attack Trump. He needs to paint a dystopian future with Trump where elections are threatened, white supremacist gangs are in the streets, our president is beholden to a foreign country, and our Supreme Court is going to cause turmoil with extreme decisions like overturning Roe v. Wade. Hit him hard on how Trump refused to mobilize federal resources to deal with Covid, his contempt for masks caused others to follow his lead and lead to more deaths.

On the foreign front his desire to please Putin/Russia has lead to his undermining NATO, allowed Russia to interfere in our elections, withdraw troops from Germany and Syria (at the expense of the Kurds) and overall has weakened US leadership and made the world a more dangerous place. His incessant attacks on the press, on the FBI and our justice system, and his politicizing the Justice Department are weakening our democracy. His contempt for the truth and "fake news" is 1984ish. This guy is a one-man wrecking ball to our country and that needs to be highlighted. You cant let him get away with the idea that hell be better for the economy and he'll restore law and order. The answer is..he's the primary threat to law and order and as for the economy, well, obviously his reputation as a business genius is vastly overrated and even if you believe he would be better for the economy who the heck cares! it's not worth the damage and turmoil he is causing and thats going to hurt the economy, anyway. But Biden needs to show that.
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 11:27 am

I couldn't watch it. I tried, but it was like trying to watch a bar fight without the physical violence. Had to turn it off. Trump was an unhinged madman. Biden was normal. Definite Biden advantage.

But I'm good with no more debates. That was embarrassing. The only people crazier than Trump are those that willingly want to vote for him or work for him.
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 11:57 am

I'm glad to hear that two moderates were turned off by Trump's antics! I listened to it on radio and substantively I thought Trump was able to make some points. And Biden was sort of bland. But hopefully any undecideds were too turned off by Trump trying not to let Biden speak.

Of course, telling a white supremacist group to stand by...until I guess they are needed...should disqualify a person from being president by itself.

I agree that Biden should have denounced violence by the left or right. It seems like Antifa gets blamed for everything but he could have clearly indicated that he condemns violence from left-wing groups, whatever they are called.
Last edited by freeman3 on 30 Sep 2020, 12:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post 30 Sep 2020, 11:59 am

rickyp wrote:ray
On the other hand, I wish Biden had denounced Antifa instead of saying they don't really exist as an organization.

Since the FBI doesn't believe they are an organization, only an ideology, he's being accurate isn't he? .

Isn't it strange for an American President to be against Anti-Facism? I mean isn't that why WW2 was fought ?

On the other hand, the Proud Boys are basically Trumps "Brown Shirts" who he's waiting to unleash on the streets.


It's really not hard to say "I'm against violence by either the left or the right." That's much better than dodging the question and getting into technicalities on whether the organization exists. Just say: "No illegal violence in our Democracy". Why not hit a home run?
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Post 01 May 2022, 3:56 am

Ahhh, memories...

It looks like Dag got this one right about Biden.

Laptop? Looks proven by now.
Media interferance? Looks proven by now.
More Covid deaths under Biden.
Ukraine (there should have been MUCH more support before the conflict)
Inflation
Increased illegal immigration
Afghanistan withdrawal
Defund the police/crime surge


I have not been a Trump advocate, but it is better than this.
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Post 10 May 2022, 8:18 am

bbauska
"Laptop? Looks proven by now."
What looks proven?

"Media interferance? Looks proven by now."
What media interference?

"More Covid deaths under Biden."
Yeah, well that will happen when people refuse to get vaccinated.

"Ukraine (there should have been MUCH more support before the conflict)"
Sure. So you were unhappy when Trump held up aid to Ukraine.... ?
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/06/78534973 ... r-scrutiny

"Inflation"
Sure. Because the world economy is totally controlled by the Executive branch of the US

"Increased illegal immigration"
Sure. Because everyone but the President is on board with enforcement at employers.
https://www.politico.com/news/agenda/20 ... ion-060347

"Afghanistan withdrawal"
You mean the withdrawal agreement negotiated and agreed to by the Trump administration? And the almost complete withdrawal before Trump left office? Or just the inevitable fiasco that the aforementioned agreement and partial withdrawal set up?


"Defund the police/crime surge"
And yet President Biden opposes such.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/politics ... index.html

Do you think policing in the US could use some improvement?
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Post 10 May 2022, 6:00 pm

Laptop
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy

Among the emails that The Washington Post was able to authenticate was the Pozharskyi email that formed the basis of the New York Post's original article

In March 2022, The New York Times reported it had authenticated some emails "from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop.

Media Interference
https://itif.org/publications/2022/01/10/its-not-just-facebook-old-media-spreads-misinformation-too

More Covid Deaths under Biden's term
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/05/covid-biden-vaccines-900000-deaths/
https://khn.org/news/nation-records-400000-covid-deaths-on-last-day-of-donald-trump-presidency/

Deaths under President's term
400K Trump
500K Biden
Follow the mathematical science. President Biden said he could get Covid under control. Obviously that has not occurred.

Ukraine
I agree that Ukraine is not good, and more aid should have been given under Trump. Can you agree that more should have been done before the invasion, and the comment to Russia. Since you quoted NPR, comment on the error spoken by President Biden.
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/20/1074466148/biden-russia-ukraine-minor-incursion

Inflation
8.5% under Biden (May 2022)
'Nuff said on that. I don't care about world economics. I care about deficits, budgets and exploding spending. Those things are the major causes of inflation in the US.

Illegal Immigration
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/cbp-releases-march-2022-monthly-operational-update

Larger flow under Biden than Trump. Shall we punish the largest contributor of financial income to illegal immigrants? (It is the US Government!)

I am fine with punishing those who hire illegal immigrants, just like I am fine with punishing illegal immigrants themselves. Both NEED to occur.

Afghanistan Withdrawal
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/11/09/biden-was-wrong-on-afghanistan/
If the Doha agreement was SO BAD, why did President Biden continue to follow it. A third option was available.

Defund the Police
Yes, President Biden says he does not want to defund the police. It is the extreme left in his party that he placates. When the press secretary refuses to condemn the protests at a Supreme Court Justice's home, it speaks volumes. The left in general is to blame for this.




Apparently you have been without access to news over the last year and a half, or are being willfully blind and biased. Your statements sound very presidential. The last year and a half, it seems to be everyone else's fault but the President. To his credit, however, it is not his fault. He is only reading what is typed on the teleprompter.

I know you would be happier now than when President Trump was in office. Polls do not show that. I believe United States voters in November will show that as well.
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Post 15 May 2022, 12:13 pm

bbauska wrote:I believe United States voters in November will show that as well.


There are people who make mistakes, or who aren't effective, and then there are people who are evil.

I will always take the non-evil person over the evil person. You should too. If he runs again, a vote for Trump would be a vote for evil.

Go ahead and support Mike Pence, the most unlikely American hero. Politics has become multi-dimensional. Left vs right, and good vs evil. Vote left or right, but just don't vote evil. Kinda crazy that needs to be said.