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Post 23 May 2022, 5:51 am

I will say that the truth is coming out concerning Mrs. Clinton and the Russia scheme. The truth will always eventually going to come out.

Even the USS Maine lie was discovered...
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Post 25 May 2022, 8:33 am

I just wonder what you think that truth could be that you're so focused on it.

Biden has a son who's a loser, drug addict. I feel for him. Lots of people have kids who are troubled. What could he possibly do that would be so bad that you're so focused on it?

Do you think that they tried to destroy the American democracy? Trump, and his now many, many apologists tried to do a coup. I believe that this the single-most unamerican thing a person can do. Yet, you don't seem troubled by that, and it puzzles me. I mean, you're comparing the performance of a democratically elected president to a would-be dictator. What is there really to compare? One deserves to lose an election. The other should be in prison, or worse.

Options:

- You think he didn't try and make a coup
- You do not care he tried to make a coup, because you don't think democracy is all that important, because people are stupid
- You think that Biden is so bad that even a coup-maker would have been better. (Which reminds me of an apocryphal story about trains in 1939 Italy.)
- Something else?

Or maybe you do think that there is something implicating Bidens/Clinton in something as bad as making a coup? What would that be?

I'm not trying to minimize any Bidens/Clinton misdeeds, should any exist, but you set up this thread as Biden Vs Trump

Which is like saying public servant vs worst traitor of our lifetimes. What is there to compare, really?
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Post 25 May 2022, 2:52 pm

Something else.

Trump wanted factual data that the election was not stolen. This is exactly why the voter ID would be so beneficial. His actions were/are wrong, and I stated that.

I posted this in the Biden v Trump forum that Dag created for ease.

Perhaps the new forum should be Is Biden everything you wanted?
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Post 26 May 2022, 7:15 am

bbauska
Trump wanted factual data that the election was not stolen.


No he didn't. He just wanted the election results to come out in his favor.
There were 60 court cases that his representatives lost because there was no evidence of election fraud.
There were officials in all of the states certifying the results.
He simply wasn't willing to accept the facts.
And he continues to promote the lie to this day.
With no evidence to support his claims.
He doesn't care about evidence.
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Post 26 May 2022, 10:29 am

I look at Brad as a litmus test of the thinking of the average Republican who of course I have always disagreed with but that fundamentally is a good person with sound common sense. It is disappointing and worrisome that he doesn't see the dangers of Trumpism and just apparently thinks this is politics as usual...
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Post 26 May 2022, 11:01 am

Perhaps, Freeman, you do not understand me. I do NOT want former President Trump to EVER be elected again. I did not want him against Mrs. Clinton, and voted for Evan McMullin. All I am saying is that he is better than President Biden.

As to RickyP's relation with President Trump, I guess I cannot doubt his personal knowledge to the feelings of the former President.

Does everyone agree that the voter ID would go a long way to assuage the (sometimes irrational) concerns of the losers that improper voting is occurring?
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Post 26 May 2022, 11:56 am

But do see where we're coming from? I thought GW Bush was a terrible president. But once Obama was elected if you wanted to debate the merits of Obama vs GW, I wouldn't have said that's an apples and oranges comparison that you can't debate, because GW did not try to overthrow our democracy. To me the fact you're willing to try make a comparison between Trump and Biden suggests you're not taking the threat from Trump/DeSantis very seriously. Trump tried to overthrow our democracy he's worse no matter what. End of story.

As for voting reform it's obvious to me that Trump would have claimed voting fraud no matter what. No matter what. He went in front of 60 judges--some at least appointed by him--and his claims were frivolous. Republican secretary of states defied him on this, placing country before party.


I think putting a non-politicized (is that possible?) commission together that would investigate the issue and come up with suggestions to secure against potential.voting fraud is fine. Yes, Republicans have essentially made up this issue for political gain but securing elections in a non-partisan way is a good thing. While we're at it let's get rid of gerrymandering which is also highly undemocratic....and any attempts to suppress the vote.
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Post 26 May 2022, 2:58 pm

I would LOVE a non politicized commission to correct gerrymandering, voter ID, and restore the faith in the system. As it is, there is little belief in the system from either side.

We can debate the merits or shortcomings of President Trump until the cows come home (and I think that is the only thing that some can do), but it will not make things better.

I consider myself the type of person who can identify failings of either political side. There are some who are unable to do this. That is the main reason that I limit my Redscape postings. It is not worth the effort to tilt windmills.
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Post 26 May 2022, 3:19 pm

"That is the main reason that I limit my Redscape postings. It is not worth the effort to tilt windmills."

Yeah, I'm the same at this point. I just feel the gap is too far at this point between me and conservative Republicans for constructive discussion. Why get people annoyed for purpose? It's like my baseball team--good group of guys and we don't talk politics at all. We have a good time playing and why ruin it?

I just vent on Twitter to my fellow liberals...
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Post 26 May 2022, 3:38 pm

freeman3 wrote:I just vent on Twitter to my fellow liberals...


ECHO... ECHO... :grin:
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Post 26 May 2022, 4:10 pm

bbauska wrote:Something else.

Trump wanted factual data that the election was not stolen. This is exactly why the voter ID would be so beneficial. His actions were/are wrong, and I stated that.

I posted this in the Biden v Trump forum that Dag created for ease.

Perhaps the new forum should be Is Biden everything you wanted?


1) To Trump truth is not relevant, or at least is something to be manipulated. He's got lots of history.

2) I see that now. Sorry, yes, an old thread topic.

3) Biden is not everything I wanted, but if he loses an election, I have no doubt he will hand over the reigns of power without objection. So he's better qualified than the last guy.

On your point about voter ID, the states (and localities) run their elections. If states want to require ID, they can. It's not a federal issue. I've got to sign a book and a poll worker compares my signature to one they have on file. It would probably be easier to show my ID, and I'd be OK with that. But if you're running an election, you've got to run it for all people. Most people have an ID, but not everyone, so how do you set up a system where that <1% is not disenfranchised? I don't know. Maybe a national ID card? Give everyone a passport? I don't know what's right, but it's not like I've thought about it, because it's not all that important.
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Post 27 May 2022, 8:40 am

bbauska
As to RickyP's relation with President Trump, I guess I cannot doubt his personal knowledge to the feelings of the former President.


O come on.
My claims are based on what he has said, and what he has done.
If you think a man can repeatedly claim "the election was stolen" for 6 months and we are supposed to think that he only makes these claims because he hasn't seen convincing evidence....
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Post 28 May 2022, 5:29 am

rickyp wrote:bbauska
As to RickyP's relation with President Trump, I guess I cannot doubt his personal knowledge to the feelings of the former President.


O come on.
My claims are based on what he has said, and what he has done.
If you think a man can repeatedly claim "the election was stolen" for 6 months and we are supposed to think that he only makes these claims because he hasn't seen convincing evidence....


You are missing the "why" he thinks it is stolen. Personally, I don't care one bit on President Trump. He needs to go away, and make room for someone not unstable.

You skip over the part of my post, however, about Voter ID requirements making it much more difficult to fraud an election, and instilling more trust in the results among the population. Geojanes rightfully states that the amount of people not able to get an acceptable ID is minor, and correctable.

I am trying to put forth ideas that will do just that. Instilling the trust of the results in a CONSTITUTIONAL manner. We can come to agreement on ways that better the system. As long as it is Constitutionally-based, I would be interested in those.

Do you have any?
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Post 29 May 2022, 8:50 am

bbauska
You skip over the part of my post, however, about Voter ID requirements making it much more difficult to fraud an election,


And you skip over the part where you prove that voter fraud is actually a problem.

Offering solutions where there is not problem, in order to make it more difficult to vote for a minority..(who just happen to be reasonably reliable democratic party voters).

There's a lot wrong with American elections. Starting with the fact that there is not an independent electoral commission conducting elections. That election laws actually vary from state to state. That you have an effective duopoly. That gerrymandering and the first past the post system distort the final results from a reasonable representation of voter intentions. That elections are conducted on a business day, and there is not time off allowed to vote.....
But voter fraud is really at the vryy very bottom.
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Post 30 May 2022, 4:08 am

I am in favor of voter ID. Registering to vote in this country (and staying on the voter rolls) is no harder than getting an ID. If it would help legitimize our elections, I don't see the downside. In this country you need an ID to drink, to work, to open a bank account, etc. Yes, there are people who are marginalized but I would guess that a good many don't vote anyway. Certainly there would be support to help people get Voter IDs (and then there will be hyperbole about how that was done on Fox news).

The left ignoring sensible suggestions by the right is also part of the problem.