View topic - NY Times Dem endorsement • Redscape

: freeman3; Adjutant; Posts: 3653; Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

14 Apr 2020, 2:31 pm

Because Biden will do a much better job. I only have two real choices so I go with my best option.

: geojanes; Dignitary; Posts: 3489; Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

14 Apr 2020, 3:52 pm

bbauska wrote:Why do you think this is different?

It is very unlikely that a Biden administration, by itself, will be a extensional threat to the republic.

: bbauska; Administrator; Posts: 7388; Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

14 Apr 2020, 3:57 pm

That is exactly how I felt about Mrs Clinton... A threat to the Republic.

: geojanes; Dignitary; Posts: 3489; Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

14 Apr 2020, 4:12 pm

bbauska wrote:That is exactly how I felt about Mrs Clinton... A threat to the Republic.

And Biden's different, no?

: bbauska; Administrator; Posts: 7388; Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

14 Apr 2020, 4:34 pm

geojanes wrote:
bbauska wrote:That is exactly how I felt about Mrs Clinton... A threat to the Republic.

And Biden's different, no?

How you feel about Trump is how I felt about Clinton. So in that regard there is no difference; and yet, I voted conscience. You and Freeman seem to be willing to vote for one that you do not want or see as the best choice. There are third party candidates that would be more to your liking, I am sure.

I voted 3rd party and was satisfied that I did the right thing. I think that vote would not matter in either of your states, as I recall.

: freeman3; Adjutant; Posts: 3653; Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

14 Apr 2020, 10:55 pm

I don't know--I think the stakes are too high to throw away my vote. If there is a third party candidate that I like he is taking votes from Biden. And that will not hurt Biden in California but maybe it will hurt him somewhere (if other liberals do the same there). I just dont want to go down the road. To me, you use your vote for real-world effect...not as a declaration of principle that does not do anything. But everyone can use their vote like they want. That's just me.

: Ray Jay; Ambassador; Posts: 4965; Joined: 08 Jun 2000, 10:26 am

15 Apr 2020, 5:45 am

geojanes wrote:OK, I'll play, but this is probably the best reason to vote for him, for real:

"Biden: He'll pick really good officials and advisors, and he'll listen to them."

I hope you are right, but as far as I can tell there is no evidence of that. Who has he appointed in the past? Perhaps he will choose various Party elders and others who are impressive. Perhaps he will listen to their opinions when he should? I hope that's the case and will vote for Biden on that basis.

My experience does not really support this optimism. In my business experience, when the CEO is out of his depth, the organization quickly becomes dysfunctional in spite of the smart people around him. BTW, the Bush II years are a good example of this. Although Trump is unbearable, his presidency hasn't cost as many lives as did W's. He had very smart and experienced people around him. (Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld). What colossal blunders they made. I know there is a difference in that W had an agenda and it is not clear that Biden does, for better or for worse.

: bbauska; Administrator; Posts: 7388; Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

15 Apr 2020, 6:57 am

My military experience agrees with Ray Jay's. When a commander is over his head, the entire unit is diminished, regardless of lower ranks beneath.

: geojanes; Dignitary; Posts: 3489; Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

15 Apr 2020, 9:29 am

It's like you guys are trying to depress me. Come on, help me look for a silver lining!

: freeman3; Adjutant; Posts: 3653; Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

15 Apr 2020, 10:06 am

He's just got to better than Krusty The Clown. Or Colonel Klink. We are not setting a high bar for him...

I dont really think hes going to be in over his head in the sense you are talking about, anyway. He has an enormous amount of legislative experience. He is used to dealing with world leaders. He is used to dealing with crises. He is not an idea's guy, but he doesnt need to be. He has a certain steel to him; you dont push him around. I think he'll do just fine steering the boat for 4 years without changing things too much. We're not looking for JFK; we're looking for someone who is not a compete idiot, someone who is a patriot, someone who puts national interests over his own (or Russian) interests. He'll do.

: bbauska; Administrator; Posts: 7388; Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

15 Apr 2020, 9:50 pm

Wow... Be careful stepping over that bar.

: rickyp; Statesman; Posts: 11324; Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

16 Apr 2020, 12:50 pm

rayjay

My experience does not really support this optimism. In my business experience, when the CEO is out of his depth, the organization quickly becomes dysfunctional in spite of the smart people around him

There is ample evidence of Biden's CEO abilities.

When President Obama signed the bill, also called the Recovery Act, on Feb. 17, 2009, he thanked his vice president for working behind the scenes to make the legislation possible and then almost immediately handed Biden all the supervision.
Every week, Biden held phone calls with a rotating group of bipartisan governors and mayors.
"The vice president insisted that the recovery implementation office that reported to him, [that] they had what he called the 24-hour rule, which is any question that a governor or a mayor raised got an answer within 24 hours," said Ron Klain, who was Biden's chief of staff at the time. Klain continues to serve as an adviser to Biden's campaign.
Former aides to the vice president say he prioritized accountability and efficiency during the financial crisis.
"He held meetings with the Cabinet as a whole, the various agencies that were part of this, every other week to try to make sure we were moving quickly," Klain said.
Biden traveled the country to see stimulus projects in action. His real role was somewhat opaque to people outside the White House. He occasionally gave press updates, but Jason Furman, then the deputy director of the National Economic Council, says that wasn't the vice president's focus.
"He wasn't even that much the public face of the Recovery Act," said Furman. "He was really almost behind the scenes making sure it actually worked."
Former Biden aides describe the vice president as being obsessed with "implementation.

"
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/12/82829143 ... ens-record

: Ray Jay; Ambassador; Posts: 4965; Joined: 08 Jun 2000, 10:26 am

16 Apr 2020, 1:15 pm

Ricky:

There is ample evidence of Biden's CEO abilities.

I don't know … maybe it's evidence ... maybe it's messaging.

: rickyp; Statesman; Posts: 11324; Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

17 Apr 2020, 2:26 pm

rayjay

I don't know … maybe it's evidence ... maybe it's messaging

.

How well did the recovery from the 08 crash go?
Hows the current Covid 19 effort going?

: freeman3; Adjutant; Posts: 3653; Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

30 Jun 2020, 12:03 am

CNN investigated Trump's phone calls to foreign leaders...and he is even more incompetent than previously publicly known.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/29/politics ... index.html

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NY Times Dem endorsement