I don't know why you used a question mark. I wondered what the "Trump voter" YOU speak with have to say. I really don't care much what ever talking head you are quoting has to say. Both sides' talking heads are full of hot air.

As for denigration, You are snide toward those whom you disagree with. I leave that to your conscience.

If someone does not understand that a tax cut reduces the total tax bill, then that is on them for not understanding. It is not the a judgement on the merits of lower taxes.

Personally, I would want lower taxes, and less money being taken out of my paycheck. Couple this with the refund being small means that I am correctly estimating my tax burden.

bbauska

I don't know why you used a question mark.

That was your question mark that I missed painting into quotes.

bbauska

If someone does not understand that a tax cut reduces the total tax bill, then that is on them for not understanding. It is not the a judgement on the merits of lower taxes.

I agree with you that it is a judgement on their ability to evaluate and understand the plan.
However, I'm not weighing in on the effect of the tax cuts in any way but the political effect...
The economic effect is rolling out, and will be measured in a much larger deficit, and a minimal impact of the economy as its intended effects (corporate reinvestment in the US) don't happen.But that isn't really going to effect the political circumstances in the US that much.His supporters won't notice anything personally from those failures..
His trade wars are largely disastrous for mid western farmers... That too will have some impact politically as farmersin the mid west (Mostly trump voters) are personally damaged .


The political effect of the Trump Tax Plan will be disaffected Trump voters... I firmly believe a third of American voters will support Trump no matter what he does, but maybe 4 to 8 percent of Americans may be dissuaded from continued support if they are personally hurt.
Trump voters are emotional voters... And that's why the size of their refund check matters..
Rickyp

It may be that tax refund sizes are a great symbol for a lot of people. Maybe they did have a few more buck net in each pay packet ... but the large change in the refund size will have a greater emotional impact.

bbauska

I really don't care much what ever talking head you are quoting has to say

.
The Christian Science Monitor article has many quotes from Trump voters. At least consider that as the kind of anedotal evidence in which you seem to put so much stock.

RickyP, do you have any friends who are "Trump voters"?

bbauska

RickyP, do you have any friends who are "Trump voters"?

co workers.
I have a contract with a manufacturing company with a large American based sales force.Three or four have publicly expressed their having voted for Trump.
Occasionally they express themselves on issues like the incredible expense of health care insurance . (As independent contractors they have to buy their. ) And lately on their unexpectedly small tax refunds.

I had a conversation with a taxi driver in Vegas this weekend and he was a Trump voter. His observations: (1)Trump has faced a lot of opposition--the Mueller report, etc.--, (2) The Vatican and the City of Nottingham are like their own countries, (3) Trump is trying to break the power centers that have been there since Roman times, (4) The power centers are the Vatican (religious); United States (military); and England (financial), (5) Trump is probably the greatest human being that has ever walked the earth, and (6) but he is worried at what someone who is so brilliant, charismatic and powerful could do if he had bad intentions.

No comment.

Great! You are not as insular as I thought. Props to you.

I know the tax refund checks being lower is caused by people not being aware of their deductions. Are you blaming Trump for people's lack of awareness?

Freeman, We have all met odd people. I just met a homeless guy in the bathroom(while he was sponge showering!), and he said that Jesus is going to be the next Democratic candidate!

bbauska

Great! You are not as insular as I thought. Props to you

.

Gee. Thanks.

bbauska

I know the tax refund checks being lower is caused by people not being aware of their deductions. Are you blaming Trump for people's lack of awareness?

No, I agree with you that it is a judgement on their ability to evaluate and understand the plan.

Its also, however, a pretty good indication that they have trouble understanding and evaluating other complex issues.
Trump plays into that lack of understanding ...

I love the poorly educated,

He has a much harder time bullshitting the well educated who have developed an ability to think critically

RickyP,
I hope you did not feel offended because I pre-judged you. I have met many who who have abandoned anyone with a different viewpoint from them.

I apologize for pre-judging you.

Try to not pre-judge all "Trump voters". They are all different.

freeman3 wrote:I had a conversation with a taxi driver in Vegas this weekend and he was a Trump voter. His observations: (1)Trump has faced a lot of opposition--the Mueller report, etc.--, (2) The Vatican and the City of Nottingham are like their own countries, (3) Trump is trying to break the power centers that have been there since Roman times, (4) The power centers are the Vatican (religious); United States (military); and England (financial), (5) Trump is probably the greatest human being that has ever walked the earth, and (6) but he is worried at what someone who is so brilliant, charismatic and powerful could do if he had bad intentions.

I was in northern Michigan visiting my Dad last year and the guy who plows his snow when finding out I was visiting from NYC was very impressed. I lived in the same place as Donald Trump! We talked for a while, and eventually it came out that he believed that Donald Trump was an instrument of God and that Donald Trump's decisions reflected the will of God. I wish I was quick enough to ask if Barack Obama's decisions also reflected the will of God, but I was stunned into silence.

bbauska

Try to not pre-judge all "Trump voters". They are all different.

If you want to drill down to the individual level ... But it is valid to discern what we know about their tendencies as well.

Demographically In 2016 they tended to be white, male, middle class, over 40, conservative, republican and denizens of rural America , small towns or suburbs.
https://www.businessinsider.com/exit-po ... on-2016-11

40% of them got their news from FOX.

22% were habitual consumers of Breitbart or Drudge...
https://arcdigital.media/the-media-habi ... 2db1a78eae

I get it that you seem to place more importance on anecdotal information secured at the person to person level... But that's not the way most people, including Trump voters, understand the world.
And if Trump voters are also "emotional" voters ... rather than analytical voters... both their media habits and the nature of Trumps message set them up as perfect targets for his brand of fact free populism.
Its only when they are personally affected by things like unexpectedly low tax refunds, or the crash in export sales of soy beans that their closely held beliefs start to unravel...
I'm astounded that Trump still has between a 38 and 42 percent approval rating... Those silos must be astoundingly tight.

He validates their view of the world and takes it to people they dislike. Thats more important than anything, Ricky.
George, I am always amazed at how God is always on "their" ("Catholic/Protestant/Muslim) side.

freeman3 wrote:He validates their view of the world and takes it to people they dislike. Thats more important than anything, Ricky.
George, I am always amazed at how God is always on "their" ("Catholic/Protestant/Muslim) side.

That and they have a job laying pipelines so gasoline prices stay low.

David Stockman is not a fan of Trump's economic policies...

https://finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/ ... economy-16

OK, Here is the data. AGI difference is negligible between 2017 and 2018 taxes.

Tax owed was $1500 less this tax year (2018). Seems like the tax plan put forth from the administration saved me (a middle class family) $125/month. I am happy about that.

bbauska wrote:OK, Here is the data. AGI difference is negligible between 2017 and 2018 taxes.

Tax owed was $1500 less this tax year (2018). Seems like the tax plan put forth from the administration saved me (a middle class family) $125/month. I am happy about that.

That's pretty darn good. Good for you!

Did you itemize your deductions in either year? I think for most folks who took the standard deduction in 2017 they're going to be saving money in 2018.