About time if you ask me.

Si!

geojanes wrote:About time if you ask me.

What to offer more incentives to rogue regimes to kidnap Americans?

Mission accomplished!

Does this mean that the Cubans will be trying to extradite Luis Posada Carriles?

Doctor Fate wrote:

geojanes wrote:About time if you ask me.

What to offer more incentives to rogue regimes to kidnap Americans?

Mission accomplished!

Hmm. Gross was not just some random tourist. He was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars of USAID money to smuggle contraband into Cuba. Whether you agree with the idea of promoting dissident groups in Cuba or not, it's not 'kidnap' when someone is arrested for breaking the local laws.

geojanes wrote:About time if you ask me.

Yep. 25 years after opening up relations with the Warsaw Pact helped to end the Cold War, it's not too soon to try and end that particular little impasse.

50 years of sanctions and rudeness don't seem to have done much to alter Cuba's political situation, perhaps it's time to try another approach?

If there is genuine HR reform in Cuba, great. Otherwise, maybe the only thing we are doing is bailing the Castros out. Their economy is going to crash and burn without help from Venezuela and Russia, who are both hurting because of the crash in oil prices.

Doctor Fate wrote:If there is genuine HR reform in Cuba, great. Otherwise, maybe the only thing we are doing is bailing the Castros out. Their economy is going to crash and burn without help from Venezuela and Russia, who are both hurting because of the crash in oil prices.

So what better time to come in and try and wean them off Rubles and Bolivars?

Cuba went through a dire economic period after the USSR collapsed, but the Castros held on then. Why would hoping the economy crashes and burns work this time?

Cuba turned out better than Haiti. No good deed goes unpunished Raul

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:If there is genuine HR reform in Cuba, great. Otherwise, maybe the only thing we are doing is bailing the Castros out. Their economy is going to crash and burn without help from Venezuela and Russia, who are both hurting because of the crash in oil prices.

So what better time to come in and try and wean them off Rubles and Bolivars?

Cuba went through a dire economic period after the USSR collapsed, but the Castros held on then. Why would hoping the economy crashes and burns work this time?

The Castros are both really old. This is not for them, this is for the next generation and the one after that. The US has diplomatic relations with states that are far worse, and normalization is long overdue.

And besides, who does't want to go to Havana? Of course, I'm sure Americans will turn it into Miami south and ruin it before too long, but if you get there soon, it might still be pretty cool.

geojanes wrote:And besides, who does't want to go to Havana? Of course, I'm sure Americans will turn it into Miami south and ruin it before too long, but if you get there soon, it might still be pretty cool.

I can't do the full Jay-Z/Beyonce thing. To me, as long as political prisoners are the norm and free speech is a distant hope, I'll not be going there.

geojanes wrote:The Castros are both really old. This is not for them, this is for the next generation and the one after that. The US has diplomatic relations with states that are far worse, and normalization is long overdue.

I totally agree. Fidel is pretty much out of the picture anyway, and Raul is older.

And besides, who does't want to go to Havana? Of course, I'm sure Americans will turn it into Miami south and ruin it before too long, but if you get there soon, it might still be pretty cool.

It is an interesting place to visit - the locals are very friendly and the architecture is amazing. Walking in Hemingway's footsteps is worth a trip.

But it's not paradise, and there was a fair amount of obvious poverty. Not as bad or as threatening as other Caribbean islands, but still.

Not only is it "about time", I believe this day will go down in the annals of world history, in the category of international peace and cooperation. It will also be remembered as one of the best moves from an otherwise pretty mediocre and boring president.

Now if he will only close Guantanamo as he promised during his initial campaign.

Does it matter if the US gets nothing out of this? In other words, if we receive nothing more than platitudes about human rights, is this still a great deal? Isn't the point about the Cuban people? If their situation is not improved and all we accomplish is ensuring the continuation of the dictatorship, is this a prudent move?

On a second front, when you hear Senator Menendez (D-NJ) say the deal has been in the works for a year, does it concern you that the Administration consulted with no one in Congress?

Does anyone believe this did not involve negotiating for the release of Mr. Gross? Is that sound policy?

Doctor Fate wrote:Does it matter if the US gets nothing out of this?

No, not really.

Doctor Fate wrote:Isn't the point about the Cuban people? If their situation is not improved and all we accomplish is ensuring the continuation of the dictatorship, is this a prudent move?

I think their situation will likely improve as a result of this, and other changes in Cuba, but of course only time will tell.

Doctor Fate wrote:On a second front, when you hear Senator Menendez (D-NJ) say the deal has been in the works for a year, does it concern you that the Administration consulted with no one in Congress?

Again, no, not really. In principle, maybe, but not now, not with what might be the most dysfunctional Congress in history.