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Post 17 Jun 2014, 4:41 pm

Does anyone believe the story that the computer that stores all the documents for Ms. Lerner's Email acct crashed and that there are no other storage locations.

Quite honestly, the "Dog ate my homework" excuse got old in 4th grade.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/lawmakers-irs-lost-more-emails-in-tea-party-probe/2014/06/17/f81ca68c-f63b-11e3-afdf-f7ffea8c744a_story.html
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Post 18 Jun 2014, 2:12 pm

No worries. I'm sure they can piece it together by using the emails of other IRS employees . . . whoops!

The IRS recently informed Ways and Means chairman Dave Camp and subcommittee chairman Charles Boustany that computer crashes resulted in additional lost e-mails, including from Nikole Flax, the chief of staff to former IRS commissioner Steven Miller, who was fired in the wake of the targeting scandal.

The revelation about Lerner’s e-mails rekindled the targeting scandal and today’s news has further inflamed Republicans. Camp and Boustany are now demanding a special prosecutor to investigate “every angle” of the events that led to Lois Lerner’s revelation in May 2013 that the agency had used inappropriate criteria to review the applications for tax exemption.

The lawmakers expressed particular outrage that the agency has known since February that it would not be able to produce the e-mails requested by the committee yet did not apprise the committee of that fact, and they charged in a statement that the IRS is attempting to “cover up the fact that it convenient lost key documents in the investigation.”


But, really, it's okay. The President assures us there's not even a "smidgen" of corruption at the IRS. So, we have that. Who are you going to believe--him or your lying eyes?
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Post 18 Jun 2014, 2:26 pm

"haven't you ever heard of a computer crash" :yes:
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Post 18 Jun 2014, 3:10 pm

http://www.irs.gov/irm/part1/irm_01-010-003.html

I believe the non-notification of the crash is a violation.

Side note: I have had a crash and had to re-load everything. I have Carbonite. Didn't lose a thing. (Non paid recommendation)
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Post 18 Jun 2014, 5:43 pm

freeman3 wrote:"haven't you ever heard of a computer crash" :yes:


Here's a funny thing about email: you don't lose them from a computer crash. For example, if my computer dies, I can still get all my email. How? Because they're on a SERVER, which is not my computer.

This is total bunk. It's worse than "my dog ate my homework."
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 1:26 am

Of course, a server is itself just a computer, and they are not immune from crashing.

But it would be odd not to have a back-up of emails somwhere.
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 6:05 am

danivon wrote:Of course, a server is itself just a computer, and they are not immune from crashing.

But it would be odd not to have a back-up of emails somwhere.


Yes, it would be odd for an organization that would never accept "my computer crashed" as an excuse to have zero redundancy.

Oh sorry. They had redundancy. They just claim to wipe down their back-ups every six months. Again, they would not accept that if I tried to use it.

Additionally, it seems fairly convenient to have THIS computer crash and THESE emails wiped out.
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 6:37 am

They have been able to reproduce e-mails sent to other IRS employees (through their e-mail accounts), but not to outside the agency. Presumably the most interesting ones are either personal or sent to politicians outside the IRS. Curiouser and curiouser.
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 8:51 am

Ray Jay wrote:They have been able to reproduce e-mails sent to other IRS employees (through their e-mail accounts), but not to outside the agency. Presumably the most interesting ones are either personal or sent to politicians outside the IRS. Curiouser and curiouser.


I don't like special prosecutors. I think, historically, they have tended to paint outside the lines.

However, in this case, I don't see an option. There is no way, especially after the "crashed hard drive" excuse, that we can trust the IRS or the "government" to be fair until/unless we know that any/all wrongdoing is properly addressed.
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 4:50 pm

Just as bad is the panel of congressmen who somehow - or in some way - accept that emails were lost and are more concerned with why they were not told this last year. Maybe the IRS has them pegged as a bunch of old farts who know next to nothing about email servers, backup systems, offsite storage, data retention policies, etc.

But it is surely the height of guile to have IRS personnel actually claim their emails were "lost", especially for those specific periods of time. The Congressional panel should subpoena the IT Director to try to explain (with a straight face) how they could "lose" emails (much less just the emails related to this investigation) in a modern, networked environment. And the panel should have their own IT expert available, as well.
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Post 19 Jun 2014, 5:53 pm

georgeatkins wrote:Just as bad is the panel of congressmen who somehow - or in some way - accept that emails were lost and are more concerned with why they were not told this last year. Maybe the IRS has them pegged as a bunch of old farts who know next to nothing about email servers, backup systems, offsite storage, data retention policies, etc.

But it is surely the height of guile to have IRS personnel actually claim their emails were "lost", especially for those specific periods of time. The Congressional panel should subpoena the IT Director to try to explain (with a straight face) how they could "lose" emails (much less just the emails related to this investigation) in a modern, networked environment. And the panel should have their own IT expert available, as well.

Boom!

What he said.
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Post 20 Jun 2014, 2:21 am

Ray Jay wrote:They have been able to reproduce e-mails sent to other IRS employees (through their e-mail accounts), but not to outside the agency. Presumably the most interesting ones are either personal or sent to politicians outside the IRS. Curiouser and curiouser.
Well emails going out to an external recipient are only stored attached to the sending account. Emails coming in from outside will only be stored attached to the receiving account. Emails between people in the same organisation will be attached to both accounts.

So, you could lose the emails related to an account and still find the ones they sent that had an internal recipient.
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Post 25 Jun 2014, 10:07 am

LAT:

After more than a year of scrutiny, three congressional committees continue to flail away at the Internal Revenue Service's alleged targeting of conservative nonprofit groups without producing any definitive answers to the questions they've raised. This page worried at the outset that the investigations would become too politicized to get to the bottom of the scandal. The result, however, has been even worse: Not only have two House probes disintegrated into partisan sniping, but the IRS further damaged its own credibility by belatedly disclosing the disappearance of two years' worth of emails belonging to a key agency figure who has refused to talk to Congress. It's past time to turn over the inquiry to an independent investigator who can dig up the truth and, if possible crimes are revealed, refer matters to federal prosecutors.

At the heart of the scandal is how the agency handled groups seeking tax-exempt status under Sections 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) of the tax code. The latter have skyrocketed in recent years, and there are legitimate questions about whether such "social welfare" groups are really just political action committees trying to hide their donor lists. But rather than addressing that issue systematically, the IRS gave extra scrutiny mainly to tea party groups, often in inappropriate ways, an inspector general reported.

Now, 13 months after that report was published, there still has been no thorough recounting of why the agency took those steps and what role, if any, the White House played. Instead, House GOP investigators, who seem determined to portray the White House as the IRS' puppet master regardless of what the evidence reveals, have dribbled out selective disclosures, and the Senate has been silent. Yet it's impossible to feel any sympathy for the agency when it waited four months before telling Congress that several computer hard drives had crashed in mid-2011, wiping out emails stored by Lois Lerner and six other key employees.

Why an agency that relies on record-keeping would keep such limited records is a mystery, as is how such an important trail of evidence disappeared before the scandal hit. But neither Congress nor the administration has given much reason to be trusted to unravel them. Instead, the situation cries out for the appointment of someone with a track record of sorting through complex problems to figure out what happened and who's responsible. Although it's tempting to demand a special prosecutor, as some Republicans have done, such efforts in the past have come at great expense and with wildly mixed results. A prosecutor also may be required by ethics rules to keep some findings secret, which is the opposite of the transparency needed here. Better to call on a trusted and energetic figure who can conduct a vigorous inquiry, with no questions about his or her motives.


When liberal editorial boards start noting holes in the IRS' story, it's time to take it up a notch.
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Post 25 Jun 2014, 10:15 am

The IRS has been in a civil action vs. Z street since 2010 which requires the IRS to maintain these records for sake of the trial. There is a special duty beyond the IRS internal administrative rules to freeze these records and not lose them ... this appears to be really bad criminal activity ... you wouldn't expect this sort of behavior unless there was something really damaging that they have to hide.
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Post 25 Jun 2014, 2:22 pm

Ray Jay wrote:The IRS has been in a civil action vs. Z street since 2010 which requires the IRS to maintain these records for sake of the trial. There is a special duty beyond the IRS internal administrative rules to freeze these records and not lose them ... this appears to be really bad criminal activity ... you wouldn't expect this sort of behavior unless there was something really damaging that they have to hide.


Given that Federal regulations mandate they keep the emails and that they had a contractor for this very purpose until some weeks after Lerner's HD crash, shouldn't someone be answering questions? Like, why was the contract cancelled? Who inspected the servers to make sure the emails were irretrievable?

Btw, what are the odds that Lerner's emails when she was known to be communicating with the DOJ and White House are the ones that disappeared? What about the other 6 folks? How common were these HD crashes in the IRS?

Here's what I know: if police officers act in a way to bring to bring the whole Department into disrepute (or even question), the chief would not be popping off to those who represent the people. Koskinen has been a complete jerk. Look, I know the GOP are firing hard questions, some may even be unfair, but he's acting like he's the king and they are his subjects. It's been a bit shocking, really. I didn't expect him to come in groveling, but I didn't expect an unfunny Don Rickles either.

A conservative firebrand writes:

We now know that some person or persons at the IRS intentionally and maliciously leaked confidential tax records of a non-profit organization so that gay rights activists could target the donors of the organization for harassment. We know this from the emails of the gay rights activist who obtained the records through, what he described, as “a conduit” from the IRS. He then sent the data to the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign, which then put the records online. The records contained the names and addresses of donors to the National Organization for Marriage. The IRS is not only seemingly targeting conservative groups, but is now admitting to leaking information about a conservative group so others can target their donors.

Yes, the IRS is admitting someone at the IRS did this and is paying the legal fees of the National Organization for Marriage as a result.

The gay rights activist who received and disseminated the information, Matthew Meisel, “invoked his fifth amendment right not to incriminate himself” and he would not identify his conduit.

This all raises a question an honest media would ask: why has Eric Holder refused to investigate and prosecute this?

The American media will not ask this question because the National Organization for Marriage opposes gay marriage. The donors to the group, in the media’s mind, are bigots. To the American media they deserve no protection. They are oppressors.

But an honest media that believed in equal justice under the law would have to ask the question — why will the Justice Department not investigate and prosecute those within the IRS who leaked confidential tax records to political opponents of the group.

Must we wait until a Republican administration does this?


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An Intellectually Honest Media Would Ask This Question

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Ignore, for a minute, the IRS targeting of conservative groups and the erasure of seven hard drives at the IRS. Yes, ignore all that for a moment.

While the media is doing its best to avoid that subject, with difficulty, it is absolutely and willfully ignoring another IRS scandal that, had it happened in the Bush Administration, would be the lead story of every nightly newscast and above the fold on the front page of every newspaper in America.

We now know that some person or persons at the IRS intentionally and maliciously leaked confidential tax records of a non-profit organization so that gay rights activists could target the donors of the organization for harassment. We know this from the emails of the gay rights activist who obtained the records through, what he described, as “a conduit” from the IRS. He then sent the data to the gay rights group Human Rights Campaign, which then put the records online. The records contained the names and addresses of donors to the National Organization for Marriage. The IRS is not only seemingly targeting conservative groups, but is now admitting to leaking information about a conservative group so others can target their donors.

Yes, the IRS is admitting someone at the IRS did this and is paying the legal fees of the National Organization for Marriage as a result.

The gay rights activist who received and disseminated the information, Matthew Meisel, “invoked his fifth amendment right not to incriminate himself” and he would not identify his conduit.

This all raises a question an honest media would ask: why has Eric Holder refused to investigate and prosecute this?

The American media will not ask this question because the National Organization for Marriage opposes gay marriage. The donors to the group, in the media’s mind, are bigots. To the American media they deserve no protection. They are oppressors.

But an honest media that believed in equal justice under the law would have to ask the question — why will the Justice Department not investigate and prosecute those within the IRS who leaked confidential tax records to political opponents of the group.

Must we wait until a Republican administration does this?

It seems we need more than one special prosecutor to investigate the IRS and Darryl Issa should be holding hearings on this matter. The IRS is not only seemingly targeting conservative groups, but is leaking information about conservative groups so others can target their donors.


He's right: the IRS has gone rogue. The law, it seems, no longer constrains it.