I was watching this HBO documentary on women in Pakistan whose husbands had thrown acid on their face and I thought there wasn't much worse you could do to a human being. And the perpetrators are rarely if ever punished for these attacks. Just glad I live in a country where although justice is far from perfect or equal, profound injustice is not the norm.

Aye, there are some terrible things happening out in the wider world - often to vulnerable people: women, children, the poor. It took a long time and a lot of effort to get where we are in the West and sometimes it's easy to take for granted.

Pakistan has changed the law recently, although enforcement is a problem. India has had a recent focus on violence against women, and acid attacks are a problem there that has been targeted with legal changes this year. Bangladesh has a death penalty for acid attacks and strict laws concerning the sale and ownership/use of acids, and as a result has seen a fall in the number of attacks - although it had the highest rate in the world to start with.

Apart from Bangladesh, reported cases are increasing across the developing world. Part of that, especially recently, may be down to improved awareness. In Pakistan the fact that a recent victim was a public figure - a young actress - may provoke more people to want push for change and enforcement.

freeman3 wrote:I was watching this HBO documentary on women in Pakistan whose husbands had thrown acid on their face and I thought there wasn't much worse you could do to a human being. And the perpetrators are rarely if ever punished for these attacks. Just glad I live in a country where although justice is far from perfect or equal, profound injustice is not the norm.

What's their motivation? Why do these men do it? Why is the prosecution rate so low?

A major 'reason' is emotional. A woman (or her family) rebuffs a marriage proposal and he enacts revenge. In Cambodia it is often about jealousy (wives attacking mistresses), but across the world it seems to be mainly about personal revenge.

It also seems that religious fundamentalists are targeting 'immodest' women in Gaza and parts of Pakistan.

The acid used is cheap and available (it is used for cleaning knives and metal utensils).

As to why the get away with it in Pakistan? Well, it is a patriachal society that does not value women, particulalry in the more rural areas, and the justice system is poor generally to start with, even before you consider it. A lot of the time, the victims do not report it - or name their attackers - out of fear.

danivon wrote:A major 'reason' is emotional. A woman (or her family) rebuffs a marriage proposal and he enacts revenge. In Cambodia it is often about jealousy (wives attacking mistresses), but across the world it seems to be mainly about personal revenge.

It also seems that religious fundamentalists are targeting 'immodest' women in Gaza and parts of Pakistan.

The acid used is cheap and available (it is used for cleaning knives and metal utensils).

As to why the get away with it in Pakistan? Well, it is a patriachal society that does not value women, particulalry in the more rural areas, and the justice system is poor generally to start with, even before you consider it. A lot of the time, the victims do not report it - or name their attackers - out of fear.

Why do you suppose it doesn't seem to happen with such frequency in the UK or the US?

Doctor Fate wrote:Why do you suppose it doesn't seem to happen with such frequency in the UK or the US?

For the same reasons that it is rare across the developed world (but not unknown - we did have a high profile case in the UK where a woman was attacked with acid in the street a few years ago). We have societies which are less aggressive towards women.

Of course, historically, 'vitriol' attacks were more common in 17th and 18th century England and France. Often women against women.

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Why do you suppose it doesn't seem to happen with such frequency in the UK or the US?

For the same reasons that it is rare across the developed world (but not unknown - we did have a high profile case in the UK where a woman was attacked with acid in the street a few years ago). We have societies which are less aggressive towards women.

Of course, historically, 'vitriol' attacks were more common in 17th and 18th century England and France. Often women against women.

What is the commonality of the attacks? Is it a Culture? Religion? What?

bbauska wrote:

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Why do you suppose it doesn't seem to happen with such frequency in the UK or the US?

For the same reasons that it is rare across the developed world (but not unknown - we did have a high profile case in the UK where a woman was attacked with acid in the street a few years ago). We have societies which are less aggressive towards women.

Of course, historically, 'vitriol' attacks were more common in 17th and 18th century England and France. Often women against women.

What is the commonality of the attacks? Is it a Culture? Religion? What?

It's culture. Cambodia and India have the same problem, but have different religions.

You could so with watching the documentaries (there are a few on the subject) or reading up on Wikipedia, if you have so many questions.

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Why do you suppose it doesn't seem to happen with such frequency in the UK or the US?

For the same reasons that it is rare across the developed world (but not unknown - we did have a high profile case in the UK where a woman was attacked with acid in the street a few years ago). We have societies which are less aggressive towards women.

Of course, historically, 'vitriol' attacks were more common in 17th and 18th century England and France. Often women against women.

What is the commonality of the attacks? Is it a Culture? Religion? What?

It's culture. Cambodia and India have the same problem, but have different religions.

You could so with watching the documentaries (there are a few on the subject) or reading up on Wikipedia, if you have so many questions.

I did read up on it. I agree it is culture. I do believe there is a touch of Islam in it as well, but mainly culture.

I think that the meme of equality is a central feature of our western societies that keeps coming back to further progress. Hegel at least cited the Reformation as being the origin of this idea where each man was given the responsibility of reading the Bible without having a hierarchical priest caste mediating between the individual and God. I suspect the roots are deeper than that but once you have a notion of equality then it's a small step to the idea that everyone has natural rights. It becomes harder to justify racism and sexism or any differential treatment of groups.
So I would argue that societies that allow this horrible treatment are not just patriarchical (though they are) but also hierarchical. India of course has a history of having a caste system (a hierarchy) and the countries where these acid attacks are predominantly happening are India-related. Once these societies accept the notion of equality (even if is initially only for men), then eventually women will be treated better. Whether Islam, with its lack of separation of church and state and with a hierarchical structure, interferes with a society developing a notion of equality is an interesting question.

Part of it has to do with the Eastern concept of pride (face). Insults, or perceived insults, are dealt with harshly. This was interesting:

Bangladesh: The Acid Crime Control Act 2002 imposes death penalty on the culprits. A decrease in the number of acid attacks has been witnessed ever since the act came into being. The Acid Crime Prevention Act 2002 regulates the sales of acid across the country.

Cambodia: Acid control law-adopted in December 2011. Not only women, but cases of acid attacks on men are equally high in the country.

The consequences:

In addition to medical and psychological effects, many social implications exist for acid survivors, especially women. For example, such attacks usually leave victims handicapped in some way, rendering them dependent on either their spouse or family for everyday activities, such as eating and running errands. This dependency is increased by the fact that many acid survivors are not able to find work, due to impaired vision and range of motion. This negatively impacts their economic viability, causing hardships on the families/spouses that care for them. As a result, divorce rates are high, with abandonment by husbands found in 25% acid assault cases in Uganda (compared to only 3% of wives abandoning their disfigured husbands).[18] Moreover, acid survivors who are single when attacked almost certainly become ostracized from society, effectively ruining marriage prospects.[21]

Is Islam (in part) responsible? Here's one take. I recommend reading the whole thing. Maybe someone else is incisive enough to edit.

The author of that article makes some generalisations. He quotes a passage and immediately after writes "The common denominator is Islam". Oddly, the passage mentions attacks in Cambodia and India against Dalits (low caste Hindus, often abused by higher caste Hindus).

Indeed Islan is a factor in some places and as a 'reason' for some of the attacks, but that part of the article is plain dishonesty, and it does appear the author has a bias (at one point calling Islam a 'so-called religion' - whatever anyone may feel about it, it's definitely a religion).

Acid attacks on two British teen-agers in Zanzibar. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3724484

freeman3 wrote:Acid attacks on two British teen-agers in Zanzibar. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3724484

The semi-autonomous region is predominantly Muslim and has been the scene of some religious violence in recent years.

Is there likely to be any other motivation?

Btw, the victims were transported to "Dar es Salaam," which means ""haven of peace."

Doctor Fate wrote:

freeman3 wrote:Acid attacks on two British teen-agers in Zanzibar. http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/3724484

The semi-autonomous region is predominantly Muslim and has been the scene of some religious violence in recent years.

Is there likely to be any other motivation?

Without more evidence, it could be for another reason. Let's wait until some evidence comes in before ascribing blame.

Btw, the victims were transported to "Dar es Salaam," which means ""haven of peace."

because that's where the best nearby hospital is. They are now in the UK.