Why I'm done with Islam :

1. It has no leadership.
2. It has no grass roots movement to rid itself of extemism.
3. I'm tired of excuses being made for this religion such as Islam is a beautiful religion but extremists have hijacked it tenants for political purposes.
4. It's treatment of women as second class citzens or worse is misogynistic and deplorable.
5. It's literal interpretations of the Koran are juvenile and irresponsible.
6. Almost everytime a bombing takes place somewhere in the world and a Muslim is the perpetrator I hear the following pattern of responses, namely:

- Not all Muslims are bad Muslims
- These perpetrators are not true Muslims.
- We hope there will not be retaliations for this attack
- These perpetrators were "radicalized"
- Christians have there own extremists.
- If Israel treated the Palestinians as equals such attacks would not need to take place.
- Oh yes, and by the way, this act of terrorism is wrong.

Here's an idea for mainstream Islam, if such exists, maybe the so called spokesmen for Muslim communities the world over could start off by condeming such actions first and then hit us with the rest of their points and concerns.

I do admit that the uncle of the brothers responsible for the Boston Marathon did not mince words about his abject horror over the attacks and how wrong the brothers were but his response was the exception to the rule.

The fact is this. Islam has a global problem on its hands and with little to no demonstrated desire to do anything about it.

Judaism = salvation through the law
Christianity = salvation through forgiveness
Hinduism = salvation through right behavior
Budhism = salvation through freedom from any and all that ensnares one's being
Islam = salvation through submission to God

The central problem with Islam lies within its understanding of Revelation. Submission to God requires obedience to God's will. Where is God's will to be found? The Koran. Because Islam never went through its own version of an Enlightenment, it side stepped having to deal with science (an irony given the fact that at one time it saved science). The result, a literal interpretation of its holiest text, The Koran. The Koran is clear on its directives concerning those who do not believe in Allah and on what to do with those who will not convert.

I'm open to being talked out of giving up on this religion but until then I'm done with it. I won't hear of any more excuses for mainstream Islam standing on the sidelines and watching while its religion is hijacked. If a silent majority is out there somewhere, then why the silence? Why the paralysis?

What are the stats on mainstream Islam standing on the sidelines? Is there a way to quantify that? I'm sure that many Muslim leaders have denounced terrorism.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The response from the parents is pathetic yet predictable and comes as no surprise.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/04/201342111248417387.html

Surely that's a parental thing as much as anything else.

Dag, you may find this interesting http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 93,00.html

I offer it as a critique of Jordanian culture and society, but not necessarily of Islam. The vast majority of the Jordanian Parliament wants a mass murderer of Israeli school children to be released. He is even called a hero. And Jordan is considered one of the more moderate Arab countries.

Buddhism isn't looking all that tolerant at the moment, with Sri Lanka's majority having dealt with the Tamils and now taking on the smaller Muslim minority and Burmese monks inciting and joining in with ethnic cleansing. Until all 'moderate' buddhists disavow them, I'm 'done' with the religion.

I myself do not want to give Dag's rants too much support. I think he is more than a bit off base but while "off base", he hasn't been caught stealing second base either! The religion does have it's problems and "most" of the worlds terror problems do stem from Islam, they need to do something about it and we (the rest of the world) simply can not turn a blind eye to this clear danger. Again, most who practice Islam are fine and decent people and I am not trying to lump them all together but we know we have a problem and to ignore it because it's "insensitive" to someone's faith is dangerous ignorance.

dag
maybe the so called spokesmen for Muslim communities the world over could start off by condeming such actions first and then hit us with the rest of their points and concerns.

When you google " Islamic Leaders condemn bombings" , what do you get? Nothing?

dag
These perpetrators are not true Muslims.

Are you saying that they are true Muslims? Why? (Ask their uncle..)
Is it not conceivable to you that a great religion could be corrupted in its application by extreme, malicious and dishonest clergy acting in concert with political leaders who need a method to manipulate an audience?
Hasn't this happened to every religion at some point in time?
Hindu on Muslim and Sikh violence. Christian on Jew. Christian on Christian. Christian on Muslim. Muslim on Christian..Bhuddist on Muslim... .
Its a feature of religion and humanities use of religion.... and not special to Islam.
Religion is a useful tool in creating disharmony, and inciting violence against that other tribe...

In the end, these two in Boston will share more in common with the Columbine shooters, the Oklahoma City Bomber or the kids at newtonbrook, Oregon or Phoenix, than with jihadists of 9/11.
Angry, unhappy young men deluded by influences which wouldn't influence mentally stable people.

This most certainly has happened to other religions throughout history but the problem is that was then, the Muslim problem is now. We can wait it out for another hundred years or two and accept terrorism as their way of working though what others have worked through or we can try to focus on the problem at hand.
It is not special to Islam but right now, it is Islam that represents the vast majority of these problems, are we to ignore the blatantly obvious? You want to point out 1 "other" example for every 10 Islam related problems and call it a wash?
Go ahead Ricky and post all the terrorism problems NOT associated with Islam and we will easily find 10 that are for each of yours....it's an obvious problem associated with this particular religion. Few of us want to condemn the entire religion, but we do need to keep a close eye on the extremists that are corrupting it!

tom

This most certainly has happened to other religions throughout history but the problem is that was then, the Muslim problem is now. We can wait it out for another hundred years or two and accept terrorism as their way of working though what others have worked through or we can try to focus on the problem at hand

You don't have to wait, in order to deal with terrorism. You deal with the terrorists now. You don't have to condemn an entire religion for what you recognize "has happened to other religions".
Moreover, if you ignore the vast majority of Islamic clergy and leadership, who repeatedly condemn violence - as Dag seems to have when he says,

maybe the so called spokesmen for Muslim communities the world over could start off by condemning such actions first and then hit us with the rest of their points and concerns

then you aren't portraying the leaders of the religion accurately or fairly. And, by denying their voices an audience and concentrating only on the vanishingly small number of extremists... who are largely secluded in a couple of backwaters... you give into the extremists...

The problem with these two American-Chechen men isn't their religion. It was something else. It made them susceptible to delusions and violence...
It could as easily been something else that set them off. They aren't largely different than the shooter in Oregon, Phoenix, or Newtown.... Not largely different then the two at Columbine (thats strangely similar), or the Unibomber for that matter.
Its lazy and convenient to focus on their potential motivations. because for all of these kinds of crazies, the motivation hardly matters. They were somehow constructed to find a motivation to commit violence because of a disassociation with society, and a complete loss of empathy, that for them only a violent act could satisfy.
The Columbine shooters could find a reason for their crimes from music/ or video games (has it ever been determined) just demonstrates that anything is capable of letting loose these characters...

Ricky:

Moreover, if you ignore the vast majority of Islamic clergy and leadership, who repeatedly condemn violence

Do you have evidence or a source that the vast majority of Islamic leadership condemns violence?

Interesting in how RickyP changes the order of X/American? Usually it is African- American, Asian-American, Norwegian-American (I have friends from Norway, and that is how they delineate). Now it is American-Chechen. Downplaying the foreign ties, Hmm?

"It could have been easily something else that set them off" Really? No kidding. Perhaps it was bad oatmeal? Nope. It wasn't something else, though. It was Jihad and Nihilism.

If you don't want to focus on potential motivations, then I am OK with that. However, there is not any room for understanding when a person steals because of needing a loaf of bread (example given in another forum by you). If the crime stands on it's own merits, then it stands. There is no need for mitigating circumstances. You can't have it both ways.

bbauska

If you don't want to focus on potential motivations

I'm okay with understanding "motivations". These Chechen-Americans may indeed have been influenced from some warped interpretation of Islam, or resentment of treatment of Chechens...
But that doesn't mean the religion of Islam is at fault.
The two are at fault, and whoever if anyone, may have counciled their actions...
The hundreds of millions of Muslims who practice their religion peacefully demonstrate that the two men made their choices despite what the hundreds of millions would tell them, their their actions are sinful.

The days when it was okay to condemn an entire race, ethnic group, or religious group for the actions of a handful should be in the past.

It was reported in Wapo that the elder brother was tossed from his mosque for intolerance . If he was an outcast from his own mosque, how does he represent Islam?

(almost) nobody is blaming the Islamic religion and 100% of it's followers. The vast majority are fine and decent people (though I do have an issue with the way women are treated, this having nothing to do with terrorism, I will ignore that aspect for this discussion)
But we do know that Islam is the hot bed for terrorism around the world. I am not blaming every single Muslim but I do think this is where we need to focus and to make blanket claims that the religion is as a whole quite decent simply ignores the statistics. Where do the overwhelmingly vast majority of terrorists come from? that answer is blindingly obvious, Islam! This was not "two men"only, to even suggest this was simply only two men ignores almost every other terrorist attack in the past 20+ years.To ignore religion is to ignore the facts and we (as a world society) need to focus on extremist Islamists, we need to look harder at yes ALL Islam. I am not suggesting intolerance, I am suggesting we stop trying to ignore the obvious, stop trying to be politically correct where lives are at stake!

Good shouts Ricky P but please read my entire post and deal with some of the other points I tried to make. Take points #2, #4, #5 and #6 for example. What do you think about those?

And Tom, I didn't share the post to rant. I really am fed up with the fact that nothing seems to be done about the situation and that non muslims walk on egg shells in order to avoid sounding politically incorrect and few seem wiling to call this spade a spade for fear of being characterized as "ranting" or "xenophobic"