A couple of notable cases recently may hopefully see a change in attitude towards rape and sexual assault. Mind you, it's clearly a mountain to climb.

In India, the rape and murder of a young woman in December appears to have opened a lid on a very nasty side to their society. Even reading the fairly neutral description on WIkipedia is horrific.

Often in India rape victims are blamed in part for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, especially if the victim is foreign or not considered traditional enough.

Since then, the issue has been more public. One outcome is greater scrutiny of politicians - many people were annoyed at Indian politicians trying to jump on the issue when a lot of them are themselves under investigation or have been charged with all kinds of crimes (including attempted murder, murder, rape as well as the more 'mundane' stuff like corruption and embezzlement).

And in Ohio, two students were recently convicted of rape of an unconscious 16 year old girl, having sent pictures of their act out on the internet. Unfortunately, two idiots have been arrested for threatening the victim. I believe a CNN reporter is under fire for appearing to show too much sympathy for the perpetrators.

Clearly there is a worldwide issue, that there are too many people who are prepared to tolerate rape, and show it by blaming the victim. There was a famous case in the UK some years ago where the judge claimed the victim was 'asking for it' in the way she's dressed - again causing outrage.

What can we do to reduce the tolerance for rape?

Castration of the convicted?

Seriously though,

Perhaps the issue is a callousness toward life. Culture has changed as I have heard on another forum. Perhaps this is part of that change?

Culture and law have changed, but I would contend in the opposite direction regarding rape.

I don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that there is less callousness in society toward life in all areas but rape? I would disagree with that.

Culture? The "Xbox generation" seeing violence increase through media. (contributing toward callousness)
Law? Abortion is legal, murder is set aside via the insanity plea, police do not investigate minor offenses as much.

Tell me how law and culture are valuing life in your opinion.

I think the problem is you assuming I agree with your thesis at all.

On the counter, we are far more averse to wartime fatalities than we used to be, murder rates are down (as are violent crimes), feweer women die as a result of backstreet abortions, we try to avoid executing the mentally incapable...

But none of that is about rape. I think things are better. Rape is treated more seriously by the police. Marital rate is now illegal.

Thank you for the counter position. I think your assumption about me assuming is incorrect.

We have a different world view, and I seriously wanted to know your opinion. Relax your defensiveness.

I agree that we are more averse to wartime fatalities, murder rates are down, et al. Do you agree that there is more violence in the media? Or are you unable to agree with anything I say?

Is there more violence in the media? Yes. Is there more violence in reality? Not so sure.

Is this relevant to my original post, which was about attitudes towards rape?

You asked for ways we can reduce the tolerance for rape. I gave you my opinion as to a cause, and a (somewhat) flippant reducing action. I would have thought that a person as open as you really are would welcome differing opinions (especially when you ask for them).

I thought my idea of the changing culture was cogent. Sorry it did not meet your point you were making. (sarcasm meant)

As women gain more power in a society, laws affecting them, and the prosecution of those laws, will be advanced. Including the treatment of rape in law and prosecution of the law.
Consider the difference in how rape is treated between the Nordic countries where women make up 50% of more of the legislators, and other western nations.

Swedish criminal laws regarding sex offenses are not necessarily all that much stricter than the laws in many other European countries, Mr. Borgstrom said.
But Swedish women, backed by a strong consciousness of women’s rights and a history of a very public discussion of the scourge of sexual violence, may be more willing than most to look to the law for help.
The number of reported rapes in Sweden is by far the highest in the European Union, according to the European Sourcebook of Crime and Criminal Justice Statistics, which cites 53 offenses per 100,000 inhabitants. Britain has the next highest rate, at 24 per 100,000.
Stefan Lisinski, a veteran crime reporter for the daily newspaper Dagens Nyheter, said he spent between a third to half of his time writing about sexual crimes. Last month a senior police chief was convicted of rape in a high-profile appeals case.
This is most probably not a result of more sexual violence taking place in Sweden, legal experts said, but a result of more crimes being reported.
Some people say, in fact, that if female empowerment — economic, social, and also legal — has a different quality in Sweden than in other countries, it is because men are also at the heart of the gender-equality debate.

source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/world ... .html?_r=0

India is something of a contradiction in that it has this image as the worlds largest successful democracy. However, its liberal institutions are built upon centuries old traditions that are not protective of individual rights, or entirely tolerant of freedoms. (The caste system for example). It has, despite its image, and despite many successes in pursuing liberal democratic ideals, a long long way to go...
Women in India have a great deal of influence in their system of governance however... And as they wield that power , using the free media at their disposal and with the assistance of women from other societies ... change could come quickly. Although I suspect its still likely to take root at a generational pace ...

bbauska wrote:You asked for ways we can reduce the tolerance for rape. I gave you my opinion as to a cause, and a (somewhat) flippant reducing action. I would have thought that a person as open as you really are would welcome differing opinions (especially when you ask for them).

I thought my idea of the changing culture was cogent. Sorry it did not meet your point you were making. (sarcasm meant)

I was asking how it was relevant. Your responses lead me to conclude that you aren't really sure how to answer.

You did indeed posit a reason. I responded to challenge your assertions, and you called me defensive as a result. I still can't see where you have done more than just list stuff you don't like with tolerance of rape. I don't see the link between abortion being legal and people tolerating rape, myself. I can quite easily support the legality of abortion while abhorring sexual violence.

Ricky's point is actually relevant - it does indeed seem that a lot of this is about respect for women and confidence of women to stand up to rape.

You are right, bbauska, to talk about culture, but I am not sure that it's just about 'callousness'. Also, please bear in mind I wasn't just talking about rape itself, but the tolerance for it.

Part of it is institutional, for sure - whether the police and authorities investigate claims.

Part of it is the media culture in general, although I think that you are barking up the wrong tree on violence, and it's more about the sexualisation of everything, the commodification of sex, myths about female culpability for their victimhood. That's a bit wider than the Xbox.

First off, I put "xbox generation" in quotes for a reason. I don't care one way or the other about the xbox.

I agree the over-sexualization of our culture is a problem. How would you recommend curbing that? Perhaps some data here could help?

http://www.familyfacts.org/

http://www.familyfacts.org/charts/254/teens-in-intact-families-are-less-likely-to-be-sexually-experienced

How do you believe the "victim" in this case should be handled?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/08/brian-banks-accuser-caugh_n_1581605.html

Perhaps 5 years in jail and repayment of all funds for fraud, wrongful accusation, and a myriad of other crimes? I do not tolerate rape any more than I do lying and bringing harm to another.

On your older post, I would argue that sex itself is not the real problem. Consensual sex is fine by me. The problem is rape, and the (thankfully reducing, but not as fast as I would like) tolerance for it.

On your more recent one, that's a bit of a non-sequiteur. If someone makes a false accusation of any crime, it's a serious issue and they should be punished. Thats why in the UK "perjury" and "perverting the course of justice" are often more severely dealt with than the original offence they concerned (as one of our MPs recently found out when an old driving violation he got his wife to take in his place cam back to bite him - and her).

Also, I have a friend who was himself falsely accused of rape (although the accuser never actually went to the police so it didn't get resolved) and it has affected him for many years since. I don't see why we should tolerate criminals who lie to get others in trouble. So yes, a jail term for perjury or whatever would be appropriate in a CA court, and certainly it would make sense that any compensation could be recovered from her too.

But I'm not sure that it makes any difference to my OP.