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Post 07 Dec 2012, 6:16 am

Ok, so why did 38 Republican Senators vote against ratification of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities?

It was supported by Bob Dole, as well as organisations that represent veterans. And every living President.

It was negotiated by GW Bush's administration.

It was based on, and in US Law would be no different to, the Americans with Disabilities Act signed into law by GHW Bush in 1990.

So, for the 5 or so Senators it would have taken to switch votes to ratify, what was so much more important than promoting the right of disabled people around the world, and enshrining existing US Law?
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 7:49 am

Senator Santorum lead the fight against ratification so his speech on it should provide insight into why it wasn't supported...Here it is..
CRPD—whatever its intentions—has many troubling aspects.
There is not a clear definition of “disability” in the treaty, which means some committee at the U.N. will decide after ratification who is covered—an example of what is at the heart of the problem. CRPD gives too much power to the U.N., and the unelected, unaccountable committee tasked with overseeing its implementation, while taking power and responsibility away from our elected representatives and, more important, from parents and caregivers of disabled persons.
Another example of this U.N. overreach is the treaty’s “best interests of the child” standard, which states in full: “In all actions concerning children with disabilities, the best interests of the child shall be a primary consideration.” This provision is lifted from the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was also not ratified by the United States Senate. This would put the state, under the direction of the U.N., in the position of determining what is in the best interest of a disabled child, replacing the parents who have that power under current U.S. law.
How would this new standard play out in a battle between a single mom fighting a stubborn school district for special-education services for her disabled child under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act? That landmark legislation signed by President George H.W. Bush made it clear that parents—not government officials using a “best interests of the child” standard—are ultimately in charge of their child’s education. Because of the bill, countless parents have won their fights against public schools that failed to provide adequate services for their special-needs child. CRPD could have changed all that.
I also oppose CRPD because our nation has been the worldwide leader when it comes to protecting the disabled. We should be telling the U.N., not the other way around, how to ensure dignity and respect for the disabled.
Finally, the treaty does not accomplish the principle purpose that its advocates say it will. Supporters of CRPD argue that the United States needed to ratify this treaty in order to give our nation a seat at the table in advocating for the plight of the disabled abroad. I believe that CRPD supporters have done a huge service by shining a spotlight on the gross violations of human rights and human dignity in many nations that have a horrible track record when it comes to caring for the disabled. It is also true that disabled Americans—including some of our wounded warriors—face difficulty when they travel abroad.
If I thought for a second that the United States ratifying CRPD would help people in the U.S. with disabilities or people overseas like our Bella, I would support it. But it will not.
However, the United States passing this treaty would do nothing to force any foreign government to change their laws or to spend resources on the disabled. That is for those governments to decide.
The United States—under the Americans with Disabilities Act—is the world’s leader in ensuring that disabled people, whether our citizens or foreign visitors, are able to be productive members of our society. There are no limits to what disabled persons can accomplish, in large part because of our legal protections for the disabled.
If I thought for a second that the United States ratifying CRPD would help people in the U.S. with disabilities or people overseas like our Bella, I would support it. But it will not.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rents.html

This is illogical and irrational and defies the facts in evidence.
The second paragraph is just wrong. Signing the treaty does not affect the ADA.
He even admits this himself by stating
However, the United States passing this treaty would do nothing to force any foreign government to change their laws or to spend resources on the disabled. That is for those governments to decide.

and complaining that the treaty doesn't have the power to do, just what he said it would do and therefore had to be voted down....
And he claims to admire the ADA. (second last paragraph), but doesn't want to sign a treaty that seeks to encourage other countries to follow that lead. Somehow, that would be wrong?

The opposition is an appeal to the irrational out there who believe in Bilderberg controlling the world, UN conspiracies to take over the world, Lizard People and Alex Jones on the radio...
In another thread a recent poll showed that a major percentage of Republicans think the last election was stolen by ACORN. Even though ACORN no longer exists.
Its all coming from the same space,. basically ignorance. Fed by paranoia and access to media by hyper but barely coherent people like Glenn Beck ....
And because a significant portion of those people make up a core of the republican base, and not a few of their elected officials, those who know better go along rather than stand up for whats right.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 8:21 am

UN Helicopters coming to take our disabled kids away...It's farcical but the far-right has to win something right now, anything...
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 8:58 am

Odd that this would come up here. Nobody has answered why Reid will not allow Obama's fiscal cliff bill to come for a vote. Personally that is more important to me than the UN.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 9:00 am

Now McConnell will not let the vote come about. Exactly why both sides are the problem.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 10:45 am

That, and the fiscal cliff is a misnomer. In fact, if it didn't affect the economy, going over the so called cliff would actually help the fiscal situation enormously.
The problem is that it will probably cause a recession... So it should be called the economic cliff or something else.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 10:50 am

Cliff isn't the right word either. Although some of the tax and spending changes will be felt right away, most of it is felt over the course of the year and beyond. It's more of a slope than a cliff. It also may end up being a bungee jump -- after turning your somach upside down and inside out, you are back to where you were before, assuming all the ropes and bands and harnesses are assembled properly. An economic bungee jump.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 11:09 am

Personally, I would love to see the borrowing cease at 16+ trillion. Let them live on what they get and figure out how much tax they will have to charge.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 2:04 pm

danivon wrote:Ok, so why did 38 Republican Senators vote against ratification of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities?

It was supported by Bob Dole, as well as organisations that represent veterans. And every living President.

It was negotiated by GW Bush's administration.

It was based on, and in US Law would be no different to, the Americans with Disabilities Act signed into law by GHW Bush in 1990.

So, for the 5 or so Senators it would have taken to switch votes to ratify, what was so much more important than promoting the right of disabled people around the world, and enshrining existing US Law?


The ADA is overused in the US as it is. It's a law with a heart of gold and feet of rusty iron. Like many well-intentioned laws (like the Clean Water Act), when bureaucrats actually enact it, dumb things start happening.

That said, why would Republicans oppose passing this?

I think we should reflexively oppose anything in the UN that tells/suggests any country do anything with regard to governance. This is the august body that puts regimes that oppress and murder their own people on the Human Rights Commission. The number of outright nonsensical things the UN does is beyond human ability to catalog.

Occasionally, the UN gets something right. However, it has been pretty useless in addressing the world's problems. The only reason to belong to it is the occasionally useful veto.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you're all in a huff about. The ADA is our law. It's not a particularly good one, so maybe we should not try and inflict it on everyone else?
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 5:16 pm

bbauska wrote:Odd that this would come up here. Nobody has answered why Reid will not allow Obama's fiscal cliff bill to come for a vote. Personally that is more important to me than the UN.
We have enough threads which discuss fiscal issues. This is not one of them.
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Post 07 Dec 2012, 5:25 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:The ADA is overused in the US as it is. It's a law with a heart of gold and feet of rusty iron. Like many well-intentioned laws (like the Clean Water Act), when bureaucrats actually enact it, dumb things start happening.
Yeah, disabled access is 'dumb'. I take it then that these Republican Senators support repeal?

That said, why would Republicans oppose passing this?

I think we should reflexively oppose anything in the UN that tells/suggests any country do anything with regard to governance. This is the august body that puts regimes that oppress and murder their own people on the Human Rights Commission. The number of outright nonsensical things the UN does is beyond human ability to catalog.
You did get the bit about how the UN was acting on US legislation, and the convention was pushed for by the USA. Not even under Obama, but under his Republican predecessor. If 'kneejerk anti-UN reaction' is the reason alone, it's dumb reason.

Occasionally, the UN gets something right. However, it has been pretty useless in addressing the world's problems. The only reason to belong to it is the occasionally useful veto.
And so the rights of the disabled are not something to promote? If the UN are doing something right, why oppose it?

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you're all in a huff about. The ADA is our law. It's not a particularly good one, so maybe we should not try and inflict it on everyone else?
Clearly you don't understand what a UN convention is. Countries are not forced to accept it. They don't have to sign it, they don't have to ratify it, and it's not necessarily enforcible. But for the US to spend 10 years arguing for one, for the promotion of rights for the disabled, and them decide not to ratify sends a message.
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Post 08 Dec 2012, 11:05 am

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:The ADA is overused in the US as it is. It's a law with a heart of gold and feet of rusty iron. Like many well-intentioned laws (like the Clean Water Act), when bureaucrats actually enact it, dumb things start happening.
Yeah, disabled access is 'dumb'. I take it then that these Republican Senators support repeal?


You've apparently got a bad case of DFDS.

I never said access for the disabled is "dumb."

That said, why would Republicans oppose passing this?

You did get the bit about how the UN was acting on US legislation, and the convention was pushed for by the USA. Not even under Obama, but under his Republican predecessor. If 'kneejerk anti-UN reaction' is the reason alone, it's dumb reason.


Not really, no.

The UN pushes rule after rule, most of them violations of our Constitution. If they get one right, it's no reason to celebrate--or join in.
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Post 08 Dec 2012, 11:27 am

fate
If they get one right, it's no reason to celebrate--or join in.


Its the right thing to do. But don't do it just because its the UN?

Amongst the officially accepted diagnoses of psychiatry is something called Oppositional Disorder.
This is a perfect example of the disorder....

Its this kind of reflexive opposition amongst Republican voters that republican members of Congress and Senators must stick handle. (Those that aren't also subject to the reflexive actions themselves).
Its appalling to read that Bob Dole attended the vote in the Senate, and personally appealed for support - and yet he had to sit in his wheelchair and watch the senseless action take place.
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Post 08 Dec 2012, 1:19 pm

rickyp wrote:fate
If they get one right, it's no reason to celebrate--or join in.


Its the right thing to do. But don't do it just because its the UN?

Amongst the officially accepted diagnoses of psychiatry is something called Oppositional Disorder.
This is a perfect example of the disorder....

Its this kind of reflexive opposition amongst Republican voters that republican members of Congress and Senators must stick handle. (Those that aren't also subject to the reflexive actions themselves).
Its appalling to read that Bob Dole attended the vote in the Senate, and personally appealed for support - and yet he had to sit in his wheelchair and watch the senseless action take place.


Just because you've got a psychiatrist doesn't mean you should try and practice it.

No one's talking about repealing the ADA.

Some other "brilliant" UN bills: children's bill of rights (restricting parents), gun restrictions--in fact most of these sorts of things are unAmerican and unconstitutional.
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Post 08 Dec 2012, 2:37 pm

What do you mean 'join in'? They were following your lead.

Besides, I'm asking why the Republicans in the Senate voted as they did. Not why you would have.