http://www.nwcn.com/news/washington/Welfare-benefits-paid-out-at-Strip-Clubs--Lawmakers-want-a-ban-114610089.html

This is the reason that so many are calling for MAJOR welfare reform or entire repeal. If the recipients have to come in to offices or food banks to receive benefits there would be less chance of scam and abuse. It is sad that the need to legislate this even exists.

Welfare Fraud certainly does need to be dealt with. As a non-liberal, but a socialist, I have no time for people who claim stuff they are not entitled to. So the rules and checks are important to keep up. And cheats should be punished.

However, we all know that now amount of 'law' will stop crime. And that people cheat on benefits does not make benefits themselves a bad idea.

The amount of money being sheltered from tax in the Caymans and other tax havens could pay for 100 years of welfare fraud.
The amount of money defrauded in the Iraq War alone, by US suppliers of services(?) dwarves all the welfare fraud in the last 2 decades... the amount of money defrauded from US Medicare by companies over billing (medical scooter anyone?) is enormous.
A little perspective. Why is it that the penny ante thieves are the ones you want to go after Green?
I'm agin thievery of any kind. But to what level of policing are you willing to go to demean those many deserving of help who've lined up for a handout to ensure some thief doesn't run off with a few bucks he didn't deserve?
Wouldn't that effort be better spent on some of the high ticket corporate fraud and tax evasion? If you've only got a finite amount of outrage, to demand that the theivery stop, save it for the big time thieves....
Besides, this isn't really welfare fraud. Its just injudicious use of funds by recipients... depending on how you personnally prioritize the need for a lap dance....

What did Danivon call this? Wasn't it "Whataboutery"?

Regardless... Corporate fraud or private citizen fraud. It doesn't matter to me. Both are wrong, and I am trying to make the point that for people who are being supported by the citizens of the United States should have a little more smarts on how to spend other people's money. It is disrespectful.

Green Arrow wrote:It is disrespectful.

Interesting. I read that story and felt sadness and sympathy for those who would benefit from spending their EBT money wisely but instead have been hooked by demon rum, demon porno, and demon gambling - all of them addictive - and therefore can't make prudent decisions. And I felt anger toward lawmakers who can't find ways to better direct/manage/control/restrict the use of assets they transfer. Your main emotion is of being offended by the alleged disrespect people with inadequate "smarts" are showing you?

Yes. Sadly, I feel disrespected. If the offenders of the public's goodwill and assistance willfully show poor judgment and waste of resources I feel disrespected. I disagree that you cannot make prudent decisions because of addiction. If it is important enough, they will get help (most likely from the government, which I don't have a problem with). So that is why I see it as a choice they make. I also hold lawmakers partially responsible because they program gives money and not specific supplies.

I have asked several "homeless" people who are carrying signs asking for help because they don't have a job. When I offer them minimum wage to dig some dirt so I can pour concrete, they always refuse. When I offer to buy them a sandwich, only one has accepted, but they all ask for the money instead. What does that tell you? They don't want the job or the food. It is all about the money.

GA - clearly you are not aware of what 'addiction' means. It's not a bit of a craving for something, like having an extra piece of pie with lunch.

Green Arrow wrote:...offenders of the public's goodwill and assistance...a choice they make...

Such a familiar refrain. I've heard it so many times I know the solution by heart: have Green Arrow appointed to the commission that separates the deserving poor from the undeserving. (And there are so few of the former, right?)

PS: Keep up the good work with the homeless. God forbid they should get away with using false advertising when they beg for money.

danivon wrote:GA - clearly you are not aware of what 'addiction' means. It's not a bit of a craving for something, like having an extra piece of pie with lunch.

You are correct. I have never been addicted to anything other than normal things like air and food. (Maybe a bit too much with food )

I've never been addicted to anything either (and food and air are not addictive, they are simply vital). That doesn't mean that I can't look into it or get an idea of what it means from sources outside my own direct experience. I have known people who did become addicts, and how it affected them. The prime issue is that your prioritisation skills are severely diminished.

Let's just say that if you don't know what addiction actually means, it's not really a good idea to pontificate on the addicted as if you do.

I'm also (perhaps like Min X?) picking up a slight patrician attitude towards the poor from you. They should be made to be grateful for your largess, or they deserve none.

green

Yes. Sadly, I feel disrespected. If the offenders of the public's goodwill and assistance willfully show poor judgment and waste of resources I feel disrespected

Those are so many ways you are being disrespected that amount to real money. Welfare fraud is penny ante.Why not set your outrage on something, that if corrected, would earn some real return. (Start with outrageous tax breaks for oil companies perhaps?)

There is, in the retail trade, the term "slippage". it refers to loss from employyee theft and customer theft. Stores could eliminate slippage entirely by merchanidising in an unattractive fashion that treats customers and employees as if they were potential thieves rather than potential customers. Stores eschew this and accept some slippage because their sales soar in a more open merchandising environment. And their employees, who enjoy greater trust respond with higher morale and better effort on the part of the owner...And self police better.

Theres a parallel here. When poor people are treated with dignity and the aid offered to them is given in a way that says, you are deserving of my help and deserving of my trust and respect , the aid has better results. Some will always fail to treat the aid with respect in turn...However the results are better if you accept that you are occassionally going to be disappointed. But the improvement in the use of aid is markedly better as those who do get it understand the help is given with trust and hope and genorosity.

When you treat those who receive welfare like potential criminals...you demean the vast majority of them who are simply unfortunate. There but for the grace of god, go I.

WASHINGTON -- The military paid a total of $285 billion to more than 100 contractors between 2007 and '09, even though those same companies were defrauding taxpayers in the same period, according to a new Defense Department report.

What's perhaps most shocking is that billions of dollars went to contractors who had been either suspended or debarred for misusing taxpayer funds. The Pentagon also spent $270 billion on 91 contractors involved in civil fraud cases that resulted in judgments of more than $1 million. Another $682 million went to 30 contractors convicted of criminal fraud.

Saunders said: With the country running a $14 trillion national debt, my goal is to provide as much transparency as possible about what is happening with taxpayer money," he said. "The sad truth is that virtually all of the major defense contractors in this country for years have been engaged in systemic fraudulent behavior, while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money."

http://sanders.senate.gov/graphics/Defe ... eport1.pdf

Just to put your kvetching about "welfare fraud" in perspective....

Are you saying that we should only worry about Corporate fraud? I feel we should limit fraud in both environments. I am all for putting people who commit fraud in PRISON. The same amount of time for either crime is fine in my opinion. Fraud is fraud.

GA. Perhaps if we extend your idea that because there is SS fraud, we should abandon SS, that would mean that because there is tax fraud there should be no tax, and because defence contractors have been doing fraud, we should not procure defence contracts.

Maybe that's what he's saying (or he's just indulging in that good ole fashioned whataboutery)

I like your plan, Danivon.