Neal Anderth wrote:Where was 'W' speech at the Republican convention?

Sassenach wrote:It won't make much difference though. When was the last time rhetoric was a major factor in deciding how people vote ? It excites the media but I don't see it influencing the outcome of the election all that much.

geojanes wrote:I haven't been paying close attention, but at least in the high profile speeches, the Dem speeches have been head and shoulders above the Republicans. Anyone disagree?

Doctor Fate wrote:It's all in your presuppositions. If Sandra Fluke was a home run for you, then I'm sure the rest of it was superb. Warren?

I notice you didn't link to a debunking of Clinton's many factual misstatements. Interesting.

geojanes wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:It's all in your presuppositions. If Sandra Fluke was a home run for you, then I'm sure the rest of it was superb. Warren?

I notice you didn't link to a debunking of Clinton's many factual misstatements. Interesting.

Yeah, I didn't see those speeches. I asked my wife yesterday, "who's Sandra Fluke?" Only the top headliners are getting my attention this time around. Go ahead and post a link to Clinton's misstatements. I read in the paper (sorry no link) one of those fact-checker articles the Times runs after these speeches and as I recall they judged Clinton as mostly true.

Ray Jay wrote:I read this morning that only about 3,200 of Clinton's 5,300 words were in the prepared speech and that the rest was off the cuff.

Ray Jay wrote:The Washington Post fact checker was not as kind to Bill.

geojanes wrote:

Ray Jay wrote:I read this morning that only about 3,200 of Clinton's 5,300 words were in the prepared speech and that the rest was off the cuff.

Now that's remarkable, almost unbelievable. The guy is amazing.

Haven't watched Obama's speech yet, though I haven't heard the gushing that I heard over Mrs. Obama's and Clinton's speeches.

But Mr. Obama’s speech also fell short — of his own proclaimed standards.

He vowed, “I will never turn Medicare into a voucher,” but he gave his audience no indication that his solution — controlling health care costs — might involve sacrifice on the part of seniors. He promised “responsible steps to strengthen” Social Security, which he has neglected throughout his first term. As to which steps those might be, not a word. “My plan will continue to reduce the carbon pollution that is heating our planet,” Mr. Obama said. What plan would that be?

Mr. Obama sketched a tempting array of expensive benefits and changes: eliminating overcrowded classrooms and crumbling schools; preserving the strongest military in the world; making certain that children can afford college. But he did not offer a whiff of explanation of how those programs can be paid for and the mounting national debt brought under control. Mr. Obama proferred his old plan to cut the debt by $4 trillion over the next decade, but that number includes $1 trillion in spending cuts already agreed to and nearly $900 billion in imaginary savings from winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mr. Obama boasted of foreign-policy achievements and challenged his opponent’s views and credentials in that area. Some of his boasts were justified, others less so; it had to be galling for Syrians to hear him present himself as a champion of “the rights and dignity of all human beings” without mentioning their country, where civilians are slaughtered by the thousands while the United States stands by. As with his domestic promises, he offered no new vision for challenges that have resisted his first-term efforts, such as Iran’s march toward acquiring a nuclear weapon.

The president offered an appealing, even a stirring, vision of a shared citizenship and commitment to democracy. “We don’t think government can solve all our problems,” he said. “But we don’t think government is the source of all our problems — any more than are welfare recipients, or corporations, or unions, or immigrants, or gays, or any other group we’re told to blame for our troubles.”

But the attractiveness of that vision made all the more frustrating Mr. Obama’s refusal to fill in any substance, his once again promising hard truths that he did not deliver. “They want your vote, but they don’t want you to know their plan,” he said of the Republicans. If Mr. Obama has a plan, Americans who listened Thursday don’t know how he would achieve it.