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- Neal Anderth
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22 Aug 2012, 7:29 pm
I'm not sure that the two year sentence of Pussy Riot is different than what would have occured in the US. If they performed on the Wall Street trading floor or penetrated the barriers of the Dem or Rep Conventions there would have been very serious charges leveled against them. The main church of the Russian Orthodox church is a pretty significant target in a Russian context.
I believe in free speech that is irritating to the State, my point here is that the treatment of Pussy Riot hardly stands out as different than what major political dissenters face in the West.
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- danivon
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23 Aug 2012, 12:10 am
Really? I think the sentence was harsher than we'd see here and in the USA. Also, it appeared the trial was unfairly run.
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- Ray Jay
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23 Aug 2012, 6:49 am
NA:
I believe in free speech that is irritating to the State, my point here is that the treatment of Pussy Riot hardly stands out as different than what major political dissenters face in the West.
I think you don't understand the amazing liberty that we enjoy. Do you have examples of comparable situations in the US?
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- danivon
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23 Aug 2012, 8:24 am
People in the USA are often clearly using their rights to free expression to 'irritate' the state all the time. From troofers to Nazis, from the Tea Party to the Occupy Movement. Sometimes people do get punished by the state, but often as not it's less for what they express than for the way they do it. So, violence, destruction of property, squatting, etc are punished for their own sake, and are not defended by free expression.
What the Pussy Riot performance did was clearly designed to offend, but they did no damage, they caused no violence to any person, although they could potentially be guilty of trespass (although I don't know if Russian churches are public or private), breach of the peace and obscenity.
Fines would be about the worst that you'd get in the US or UK for such actions. Not so long ago we had Occupy squatting on the doorsteps of St. Paul's Cathedral for weeks. They were evicted after a long legal case, and there were individual incidents that led to arrests, but nothing comparable to 2 year terms for singing a rude iconoclastic poem.
There are ways in which our western nations are imperfect, in which they do repress and hold down dissent, but we are not close to Russia. Look at what they are doing to Gary Kasparov. If you think Fischer was comparable, then I'd have to ask you to check your framework.
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- Ray Jay
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23 Aug 2012, 9:51 am
Another way to phrase it is that In the US it is a misdemeanor whereas in Russia it is a felony.
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- Neal Anderth
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23 Aug 2012, 1:16 pm
OK, I suppose I could agree that it's just repression light.
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- Sassenach
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23 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm
What are they doing to Garry Kasparov ?
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- danivon
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23 Aug 2012, 2:20 pm
He was outside the trial venue, not really involved in any demonstrations it seems, but there anyway, and he was arrested and manhandled by a bunch of police. He's accused of assaulting one of them by biting, even though video shows it's him on the receiving end of a fair bit and the 'victim' doesn't appear to get bitten or react as if he has.
Telegraph report
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- bbauska
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23 Aug 2012, 3:08 pm
Ahhh, the classic Bishop Fianchetto defense. Typical Kasparov.
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- Neal Anderth
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23 Aug 2012, 3:48 pm
Now if this chess champion called for Putin's ouster...
Alexandra Kosteniuk
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- Ray Jay
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24 Aug 2012, 7:27 am
Neal Anderth wrote:OK, I suppose I could agree that it's just repression light.
Whereas I think that NA has exquisite taste in female beauty, I do think he is confused about the difference between repression light and the balancing of competing interests such as free speach, freedom of religion, privacy, and safety.
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- Neal Anderth
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24 Aug 2012, 9:33 am
What is stated specifically as the competing interest of safety juxtaposed to the other three in the Constitution?
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- Ray Jay
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24 Aug 2012, 1:52 pm
I don't fully get your drift. Does this answer your question: you aren't allowed to bring a gun onto an airplane, or yell fire in a crowded theater (when there isn't a fire).
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- Neal Anderth
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24 Aug 2012, 4:21 pm
All three cases below are current matters involving veterans, freedom of speech, and allegations of egregiousness [Putinesque] overreach by the government.
A US veteran is facing charges of terrorism after being arrested for trying to get some exercise. That’s William Alemar’s story, at least, who was detained this week after jogging in full military fatigues in public while carrying a training rifle.
Authorities have charged 23-year-old Army National Guardsman and Iraq war veteran William Everett Alemar with "committing a terroristic act and wearing body armor while committing a felony offense.” He was arrested on the morning of August 20 after officers responded to calls of an armed man running along a road adjacent to a Martinsburg, West Virginia high school.
When the cops found Alemar three minutes later, he was wearing his full National Guard get-up and was brandishing an air-soft “training rifle,” a gun that while similar to his actual weapon only fires pellets, not bullets. He was also garbed in a ballistic vest composed of bullet-resistant ceramic panels and was equipped with two knives and several unloaded magazines, the Herald-Mail reports.
“The primary concern for the police department was that subject’s proximity to the area schools — Martinsburg High School, South Middle — when he was first located off Bulldog Boulevard,” Martinsburg Police Lt. George Swartwood says to reporters.
After spotting Alemar, authorities ordered him to the ground and then seized the weapons. He was initially held on $50,000 cash bond.
For the family of the vet, it seems a bit too much. “He’s not a terrorist; he’s not a bad kid,” the suspect’s father, Stephen Alemar, tells The Herald-Mail. A Facebook group, “Support William Alemar,” has been started to help the veteran as he prepares to fight his charges. Several of the users who have joined the group have made comparisons between Alemar and Brandon Raub, a retired US Marine from Virginia man who was recently detained for one week after he posted messages on his own social networking profile that raised the eyebrows of authorities.
or
http://rt.com/usa/news/texas-faces-year ... rding-692/or
On the basis that there was zero reason to detain a retired Marine and commit him to a medical facility for psychiatric evaluation, a Virginia judge has demanded that Brandon Raub be released from custody immediately.
Raub, 26, had his home visited one week earlier by FBI, Secret Service and local law enforcement agents who expressed concern over a series of Facebook posts he had made on his public social networking profile. They detained him without charge and admitted him to a local hospital for evaluation.
"The petition is so devoid of any factual allegations that it could not be reasonably expected to give rise to a case or controversy," reads a signed statement by Circuit Judge W. Allan Sharrett, which was provided to the Richmond Times-Dispatch Thursday afternoon.
Judge Sharrett adds that he was shocked to find that a magistrate did not include any grounds at all for holding Raub, who was placed in custody for a full week without any charges being pressed.
Earlier in the week, attorneys representing Raub from the Rutherford Institute attacked the mishandling of the case by suggesting that the entire ordeal was a war on their client’s constitutional rights.
“This is not how justice in America is supposed to work — with Americans being arrested for doing nothing more than exercising their First Amendment rights, forced to undergo psychological evaluations, detained against their will and isolated from their family, friends and attorneys. This is a scary new chapter in our history,” Rutherford Institute President John W. Whitehead says in a statement released on Tuesday this week. “Brandon Raub is no different from the majority of Americans who use their private Facebook pages to post a variety of content, ranging from song lyrics and political hyperbole to trash talking their neighbors, friends and government leaders.” Days before he was detained, Raub had made a series of posts that reportedly worried the authorities. His most recent postings included critique of the investigation of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and other messages, such as, “The Revolution will come for me. Men will be at my door soon to pick me up to lead it” and “Sharpen up my axe; I'm here to sever heads.
“The bottom line is his freedom of speech has been violated,” Raub's mother, Cathleen Thomas, told the Associated Press after her son was detained. On Thursday, she told the Times-Dispatch that the entire ordeal has been “phenomenal” and that others could be considered because, “This could have happened to anyone.” "This has never been about anything but freedom of speech…. We're going to continue to post on Facebook,” Thomas continued, adding that she considered her son a “true patriot.”
Raub served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and says he had been considering reenlisting before last week’s events
Now admittedly maybe I don't share in the same daily fears as some of you do. And so maybe this kind of thing seems well worth the negative trade offs from a different perspective.
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- Ray Jay
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25 Aug 2012, 5:00 am
I think you are now raising a different issue ... in the 1st one there hasn't been a trial; the 2nd link doesn't work; the 3rd on has an independent judiciary fighting for the individual's rights (which supports my point).