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Post 05 Aug 2012, 10:04 pm

Another one. I found a list of shootings this year that occurred in public and included multiple victims:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... this-year/
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Post 06 Aug 2012, 1:13 am

It's being described by police as 'terrorism'. Another tragedy, but let's not make it harder for nutters to get guns. Paperwork is such a chore.
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Post 06 Aug 2012, 11:06 am

Apparently the killer was known to the SPLC as the 'leader' of a white power rock band, and who has been in PsyOps as a soldier.

Sikh temple gunman was a Neo-nazi
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Post 07 Aug 2012, 2:26 pm

And I wasn't aware that Fort Bragg, where Page was based for much of his army career, was a hotbed of far right extremism.

Wade Michael Page's acquaintances recall a troubled man guided by hate

But at the time Fort Bragg was also a recruiting centre for white hate groups including the National Alliance, once regarded as one of the most effective such groups and also among the most extreme because it openly glorified Adolf Hitler. The Military Law Review at the time reported that National Alliance flags were openly hung in barracks and, out of uniform, soldiers sported neo-Nazi symbols and played records about killing blacks and Jews.

"White supremacists have a natural attraction to the army," the Military Law Review said. "They often see themselves as warriors, superbly fit and well-trained in survivalist techniques and weapons and poised for the ultimate conflict with various races."

In 1995, two soldiers with the 82nd Airborne murdered a black couple in Fayetteville, the city neighbouring Fort Bragg, in a racially motivated attack.

Others serving at the base during the 1990s were arrested for hoarding ammunition in preparation for an attack on businesses, including media organisations, owned by African Americans and Jews. Soldiers were also arrested as members of skinhead gangs involved in assaults.


Oh, and he bought his guns legally.
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Post 17 Aug 2012, 4:59 am

Another shooting...

No deaths, but a gunman attacked the Family Research Council and injured a security guard. The weapon was legally owned (but illegally transported over state lines, apparently). The FRC are accusing the Southern Poverty Law Centre of complicity because the SPLC lists the FRC as a 'hate group', and the suspect mentioned politics.

More pointless violence, another idiot with a gun. A good thing no-one was killed and the guard should recover fully.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 8:59 am

Feel free to look up the Nwy shooting, but I'm posting here.

Is this just?

A Norwegian court ruled Friday that confessed mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was sane, deciding he was criminally responsible for the massacre of 77 people last summer.
Reading the ruling, Judge Wenche Elisabeth Arntzen said that "in a unanimous decision ... the court sentences the defendant to 21 years of preventive detention."
However, such sentences can be extended under Norwegian law as long as an inmate is considered dangerous. Experts have said Breivik is likely to spend the rest of his life behind bars. Norway doesn't have the death penalty.


The possibility of him getting out seems . . . well, insane.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 9:21 am

Yet the Norwegian legal system allows for it, on the basis that people can change enough. Of course, entered into the transcript is a description of the crime, with details of how each murder victim died and of the injuries to the 242 other victims, and so that will be referred to on any application to be released from preventive detention.

If anything, Norwegians have been determined in the wake of a murderous attack on their liberal and multicultural society to be resolute in their liberality and proud of their society.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 9:34 am

Norway has a homicide rate of 0.6 per 100,000 and in the U.S it is 4.2 per 100,000. I think their system is working pretty well.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 9:45 am

Perhaps they figure that the death penalty isn't actually that great a deterrent?
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 9:50 am

When applied there is little recidivism.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 10:39 am

No. Leaves little room for correcting judicial error though.
Texas recently executed a couple of men many are certain were innocent.
And there have been others:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... an/257106/

Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the country due to evidence of their wrongful convictions. In 2003 alone, 10 wrongfully convicted defendants were released from death row
.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issu ... -innocence
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 11:53 am

bbauska wrote:When applied there is little recidivism.
Assuming that the correct person has been caught.

However, recidivism in murder is pretty rare even when we don't have the death penalty. There are of course serial killers and people who are dangerously violent. However, the vast majority murderers do not reoffend if they have been released after serving a term.

Besides, how does that affect the 'deterrent' effect of the death penalty?
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm

Are you saying there is a chance to re-commit crime if you are executed? Is that what you are saying no about?

Certainly there is a chance of judicial error. No one contests that.

A good example would be the Norwegian mass murder case. 77 dead, admission of guilt, irrefutable evidence of crime. He should be put down.

Would you accept the death penalty for him?
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 1:12 pm

bbauska wrote:Are you saying there is a chance to re-commit crime if you are executed? Is that what you are saying no about?
Of course I'm not. I'm saying that murder has a low recidivism rate among those released, and that I can't see how the death penalty is a deterrent to murder the first time around.

Certainly there is a chance of judicial error. No one contests that.

A good example would be the Norwegian mass murder case. 77 dead, admission of guilt, irrefutable evidence of crime. He should be put down.

Would you accept the death penalty for him?
[/quote]Nope. Too easy. He'd probably like to be a martyr. I'd rather he spent the rest of his life in jail. The sentence he received does mean that this is likely. Maybe he will never accept his crime, or atone for it, or feel guilt. He should be given every chance to, to face up to what he's done.
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Post 24 Aug 2012, 3:43 pm

freeman2 wrote:Norway has a homicide rate of 0.6 per 100,000 and in the U.S it is 4.2 per 100,000. I think their system is working pretty well.


Tell that to the family's of Breivik's 77 victims.