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Post 25 Apr 2015, 2:44 pm

Don't worry, Ricky. "most Republicans wait to hear the facts", so none will be jumping on reports based on the writing of a partisan hack who falls for hoaxes.
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 2:50 pm

rickyp wrote:So it turns out that the book, from which the New York Times quoted and which Fate quoted was written by Peter Schweizer.

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/04/peter ... er-shirley

As a political communications expert, Schweizer's notable clients include Sarah Palin, who he advised on foreign policy.[10]


NBC and ABC are reporting all kind of problems with the veracity of many of the claims in the book.


You are ignorant on this matter. (feign surprise)

The NYT article I cited was independent of Schweizer and written by Jo Becker and Mike McIntire. Of course, you would know that if you weren't so bloody lazy.

As for Becker:

Jo Becker is an award-winning American journalist and author working as an investigative reporter for The New York Times. Formerly with the Washington Post, she and her colleague there Barton Gellman won the 2008 Pulitzer Prize for National Reporting for a series of articles titled Angler, which explored the role of Vice President Dick Cheney. (Angler was a Cheney Secret Service codename.)


Thinkprogress and mediamatters are nothing but Clinton cheerleaders.

Then again, with "right-wing" groups like the NYT and WaPo going after poor little Hillary, someone has to protect her, right? Maybe Common Cause?

Citing concerns about potential conflicts of interest and the influence of hidden overseas donors, Common Cause called on presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton and the Clinton Foundation today to commission an independent and thorough review of all large donations to the foundation and to release the results.

“As Mrs. Clinton herself observed earlier this week, voluntary disclosure is not enough,” said Common Cause President Miles Rapoport. “A report in Thursday’s New York Times indicates that the Clinton Foundation violated an agreement to identify all of its donors. The foundation’s omissions create significant gaps in the information that voters need to make informed decisions at the polls.”

To ensure that the audit is complete, Rapoport said the foundation should enter into a contractual agreement with auditors to open its books fully and to make public the complete report of their review.


It's amazing to me that so many liberals are still willing to ignore evidence and simply nod as Clinton trots out Lanny Davis, James Carville, David Brock, and others to simply attack the messenger. The problem this time is that it's not just one person--and it's not just some woman Bill (allegedly) assaulted. No, this time they are going to run out of fingers trying to plug all the holes.

As for you, rickyp, maybe you should familiarize yourself with the basics?

Nah, who am I kidding! Stay ignorant my friend!
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 2:51 pm

danivon wrote:Don't worry, Ricky. "most Republicans wait to hear the facts", so none will be jumping on reports based on the writing of a partisan hack who falls for hoaxes.

I'm surprised you would be so woefully ill-informed.
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 2:53 pm

Let me help, because that's what I do:

The New York Times’s examination of the Uranium One deal is based on dozens of interviews, as well as a review of public records and securities filings in Canada, Russia and the United States. Some of the connections between Uranium One and the Clinton Foundation were unearthed by Peter Schweizer, a former fellow at the right-leaning Hoover Institution and author of the forthcoming book “Clinton Cash.” Mr. Schweizer provided a preview of material in the book to The Times, which scrutinized his information and built upon it with its own reporting.


The link again: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/ca ... share&_r=1

Notice: it's not written by Schweizer.

:eek:
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 3:03 pm

Oh, and there's more. Columbia.

Yet as union leaders and human rights activists conveyed these harrowing reports of violence to then-Secretary of State Clinton in late 2011, urging her to pressure the Colombian government to protect labor organizers, she responded first with silence, these organizers say. The State Department publicly praised Colombia’s progress on human rights, thereby permitting hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. aid to flow to the same Colombian military that labor activists say helped intimidate workers.

At the same time that Clinton's State Department was lauding Colombia’s human rights record, her family was forging a financial relationship with Pacific Rubiales, the sprawling Canadian petroleum company at the center of Colombia’s labor strife. The Clintons were also developing commercial ties with the oil giant’s founder, Canadian financier Frank Giustra, who now occupies a seat on the board of the Clinton Foundation, the family’s global philanthropic empire.

The details of these financial dealings remain murky, but this much is clear: After millions of dollars were pledged by the oil company to the Clinton Foundation -- supplemented by millions more from Giustra himself -- Secretary Clinton abruptly changed her position on the controversial U.S.-Colombia trade pact. Having opposed the deal as a bad one for labor rights back when she was a presidential candidate in 2008, she now promoted it, calling it “strongly in the interests of both Colombia and the United States.” The change of heart by Clinton and other Democratic leaders enabled congressional passage of a Colombia trade deal that experts say delivered big benefits to foreign investors like Giustra.

The Clinton Foundation, Giustra and the State Department did not respond to International Business Times' requests for comment. Pacific Rubiales has denied that it has engaged in any violence toward union organizers.


Note: not written by Mr. Schweizer.

Haiti in WaPo.

So, now, you two will probably fall back on the "It's not be proven that Hillary is a crook" defense, yes?

Unless there is video of Hillary saying, "Thanks for the bribe money" you will not believe.

As for many of the uranium mines in the US being controlled by companies controlled by Putin, well, that also falls on Obama--not in a corruption sense, but in the sense that this is STUPID and dangerous.

Anyway, stay ignorant my friends!
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 3:28 pm

This seems a friendly (and decent) analysis. However, it only covers the Russian deal and she skewers them.

Again, this is not a right-winger. This is, after all, the New Yorker:

1. Was there a quid pro quo? Based on the Times reporting, there was certainly a lot of quid (millions in donations that made it to a Clinton charity; a half-million-dollar speaker’s fee) and multiple quos (American diplomatic intervention with the Russians; approvals when the Russian firm offered a very “generous” price for Uranium One). The Clinton perspective is that, although the approvals were delivered by the State Department when Clinton led it, there is no evidence that she personally delivered them, or of the “pro” in the equation. The Clinton campaign, in its response to the Times, noted that other agencies also had a voice in the approval process, and gave the Times a statement from someone on the approvals committee saying that Clinton hadn’t “intervened.” The Clinton spokesman wouldn’t comment on whether Clinton was briefed about the matter. She was cc’d on a cable that mentioned the request for diplomatic help, but if there is a note in which she follows up with a directive—an e-mail, say—the Times doesn’t seem to have it.

This speaks to some larger questions about political corruption. How do you prove it? Maybe the uranium people simply cared deeply about the undeniably good work the foundation is doing, and would have received the help and approvals anyway. In cases like this, though, how does the public maintain its trust? Doing so becomes harder when the money is less visible, which leads to the second question:

2. Did the Clintons meet their disclosure requirements? The Times writes, of the $2.35 million from Telfer’s family foundation, “Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons, despite an agreement Mrs. Clinton had struck with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors.” This is one of the more striking details in the story, because it seems so clear-cut that the donation ought to have been disclosed. Moreover, the Times says that the foundation did not explain the lapse. I also asked the foundation to explain its reasoning. The picture one is left with is convoluted and, in the end, more troubling than if the lapse had been a simple oversight. The legalisms can be confusing, so bear with me:

 the Clinton Foundation has several components, including the Clinton Global Initiative and—this is the key one—the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership, formerly known as the Clinton Giustra Sustainable Growth Initiative. The memorandum of understanding makes it clear that the donor-disclosure requirement applies to each part of the foundation.

Craig Minassian, a Clinton Foundation spokesman, pointed out, though, that there are two legally separate but almost identically named entities: the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership and the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership (Canada). The second one is a Canadian charitable vehicle that Giustra set up—doing it this way helps Canadian donors get tax benefits. It also, to the foundation’s mind, obliterates the disclosure requirements. (There are also limits on what a Canadian charity is allowed to disclose.) Minassian added, “As complex as they may seem, these programs were set up to do philanthropic work with maximum impact, period. Critics will say what they want, but that doesn’t change the facts that these social enterprise programs are addressing poverty alleviation and other global challenges in innovative ways.” Minassian compared the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership (Canada) to entirely independent nonprofits, like AmFAR or Malaria no More, which have their own donors and then give money to the foundation’s work.

This does not make a lot of sense unless you have an instinct for the most legalistic of legalisms. Unlike AmFAR, the Clinton Giustra Enterprise Partnership (Canada) has the Clinton name on it. Money given to the Canadian entity goes exclusively to the foundation. Per an agency agreement, all of its work is done by the foundation, too. The Web site that has the C.G.E.P. name on it also has the Clinton Foundation logo and Bill Clinton’s picture; it also has a copyright notice naming the Canadian entity as the site’s owner. Anyone visiting the site would be justifiably confused. They are, in other words, effectively intermingled.

And what would it mean if the Canadian explanation flew—that the Clintons could allow a foreign businessman to set up a foreign charity, bearing their name, through which people in other countries could make secret multi-million-dollar donations to their charity’s work? That structural opacity calls the Clintons’ claims about disclosure into question. If the memorandum of understanding indeed allowed for that, it was not as strong a document as the public was led to believe—it is precisely the sort of entanglement one would want to know about. (In that way, the Canadian charity presents some of the same transparency issues as a super PAC.) At the very least, it is a reckless use of the Clinton name, allowing others to trade on it.

3. Did the Clintons personally profit? In most stories about dubious foundation donors, the retort from Clinton supporters is that the only beneficiaries have been the world’s poorest people. This ignores the way vanity and influence are their own currencies—but it is an argument, and the foundation does some truly great work. In this case, though, Bill Clinton also accepted a five-hundred-thousand-dollar speaking fee for an event in Moscow, paid for by a Russian investment bank that had ties to the Kremlin. That was in June, 2010, the Times reports, “the same month Rosatom struck its deal for a majority stake in Uranium One”—a deal that the Russian bank was promoting and thus could profit from. Did Bill Clinton do anything to help after taking their money? The Times doesn’t know. But there is a bigger question: Why was Bill Clinton taking any money from a bank linked to the Kremlin while his wife was Secretary of State? In a separate story, breaking down some of the hundred million dollars in speaking fees that Bill Clinton has collected, the Washington Post notes, “The multiple avenues through which the Clintons and their causes have accepted financial support have provided a variety of ways for wealthy interests in the United States and abroad to build friendly relations with a potential future president.”

4. Putting aside who got rich, did this series of uranium deals damage or compromise national security? That this is even a question is one reason the story is, so to speak, radioactive. According to the Times, “the sale gave the Russians control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States.” Pravda has said that it makes Russia stronger. What that means, practically, is something that will probably be debated as the election proceeds.

5. Is this cherry-picking or low-hanging fruit? Put another way, how many more stories about the Clintons and money will there be before we make it to November, 2016? The optimistic view, if you support Hillary Clinton or are simply depressed by meretriciousness, is that the Times reporters combed the Schweizer book and that this story was the worst they found. The pessimistic view is that it was an obvious one to start with, for all the reasons above, and that some names that stand out less than Uranium One and ARMZ will lead to other stories. Are the Clintons correct in saying that there is an attack machine geared up to go after them? Of course. But why have they made it so easy?
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm

I'm a little late in getting back to you on this, sorry (I know conversation changes quickly on Redscape), however:

Sass:

The definition of an ideology is:

"a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy"


And the Democratic Party does not support a system of ideas/ideals, especially ones which form the basis of economic/political theory and policy? How interesting. Dude, have you been paying attention? Again, I think you're looking at our system through the eyes of your own, and that's why you're missing it.
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Post 25 Apr 2015, 4:16 pm

Right-wing hacks personified, the NYT editorial board:

The increasing scrutiny of the foundation has raised several points that need to be addressed by Mrs. Clinton and the former president. These relate most importantly to the flow of multimillions in donations from foreigners and others to the foundation, how Mrs. Clinton dealt with potential conflicts as secretary of state and how she intends to guard against such conflicts should she win the White House.

The only plausible answer is full and complete disclosure of all sources of money going to the foundation. And the foundation needs to reinstate the ban on donations from foreign governments for the rest of her campaign — the same prohibition that was in place when she was in the Obama administration.

The messiness of her connection with the foundation has been shown in a report by The Times on a complex business deal involving Canadian mining entrepreneurs who made donations to the foundation and were at the time selling their uranium company to the Russian state-owned nuclear energy company. That deal, which included uranium mining stakes in the United States, required approval by the federal government, including the State Department.

The donations, which included $2.35 million from a principal in the deal, were not publicly disclosed by the foundation, even though Mrs. Clinton had signed an agreement with the Obama administration requiring the foundation to disclose all donors as a condition of her becoming secretary of state. This failure is an inexcusable violation of her pledge. The donations were discovered through Canadian tax records by Times reporters. Media scrutiny is continuing, with Reuters reporting that the foundation is refiling some returns found to be erroneous.

There is no indication that Mrs. Clinton played a role in the uranium deal’s eventual approval by a cabinet-level committee. But the foundation’s role in the lives of the Clintons is inevitably becoming a subject of political concern.

It’s an axiom in politics that money always creates important friendships, influence and special consideration. Wise politicians recognize this danger and work to keep it at bay. When she announced her candidacy, Mrs. Clinton resigned from the foundation board (Bill Clinton remains on the board). This was followed by the announcement of tighter foundation restrictions on donations from foreign countries, which had resumed after she left the State Department.

These half steps show that candidate Clinton is aware of the complications she and Bill Clinton have created for themselves. She needs to do a lot more, because this problem is not going away.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/opini ... ef=opinion

Make of it what you will, but there is a whiff of corruption in the air that even the NYT editorial board can't ignore.

Apparently, rickyp and danivon can.

To quote Elizabeth Warren, "Well, good for you!"
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 8:18 am

Doctor Fate wrote:Make of it what you will, but there is a whiff of corruption in the air that even the NYT editorial board can't ignore.

Apparently, rickyp and danivon can.
Not "ignoring" it. Just waiting to hear the facts, not the "whiff". I'm trying be more of a Republican in that regard, you see :smile:

I am not a big fan of Hillary Clinton. She was my least favourite of the three front-runners in 2008 (I was backing Edwards at first). I agree that it is an issue, and potentially a very damaging one.

But so far, there is an investigation by journalists, and not much more.
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 9:08 am

Danivon, there's been more than a "whiff" so far. As with Watergate "follow the money".

And while you're at it take a whiff of this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32441222


Kinda like sour milk ya know?
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 9:21 am

JimHackerMP wrote:Danivon, there's been more than a "whiff" so far. As with Watergate "follow the money".
Well, there was evidence especially when it came to the White House tapes. And an initial actual crime of burglary to investigate.

And while you're at it take a whiff of this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32441222


Kinda like sour milk ya know?
This adds nothing new - it's just reporting on the already existing reporting. yes, there is a whiff. But it could just be flatulence...
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 1:20 pm

Well there's no smoke without fire, and no flatulence without----well all right, let's not get too vulgar. :laugh:

Let me put it this way if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and starts soliciting political donations from some of the shadier ducks in the pond, well...have it your own way.

Certainly I am in a typically awkward position. I hate the bigotry that some of the GOP candidates are already spouting to court their "base" in the deep south, yet the evidence is starting to show that Hillary---I was never a fan in the first place, as I said---is getting some donations that are not just dirty but put national security at risk.

What would you do if you were me Danivon? Wait for, as Dr Fate put it, Hillary admitting it on TV? Obviously she's not going to do that. But I hope you're right Danivon, I really do. Because otherwise I might have to hold my nose, really really hold it, and vote for some right-wing prick again.
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 1:57 pm

I suspect the Republicans will end up picking a moderate anyway, so you may be in luck. Could you vote for Jeb ?

I must say I don't envy people like yourself with the sort of choices that are available. My own politics are generally right of centre but with liberal views on social issues. The Tories in this country are just about acceptable to me as a result, although the current PM is a pretty dismal and uninspiring figure that I never fail to be disappointed by. I can't begin to imagine who I'd have to vote for if I were American though. I guess I'd probably have to vote Democrat on the grounds that I prefer amoral hucksters with no principles to religious fundamentalists whose principles I fundamentally disagree with, but it wouldn't be with any great enthusiasm.

Not sure I could vote for Hillary though. She was dreadful as SoS and her entire pitch appears to be "vote for me, I have breasts !"
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 4:25 pm

bbauska wrote:Would Clinton be someone you could not vote for if these allegations are found to be true?

Yes, it is puzzling that there are not others...


Of course, but that's not saying much, since the chances I'd ever vote for her are probably as low as yours.
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Post 26 Apr 2015, 4:59 pm

the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States. The committee comprises some of the most powerful members of the cabinet, including the attorney general, the secretaries of the Treasury, Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce and Energy, and the secretary of state. They are charged with reviewing any deal that could result in foreign control of an American business or asset deemed important to national security
.

I wonder how it is that donations to the Clinton Foundation and a speakers fee to Bill was able to influence the attorney general, the secretaries of the Treasury, Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce and Energy.
Anyone of them could have vetoed a deal not just Hillary.

This is reminiscent of so many attempts to nail the Clinton's. There's no there there.
And the problem with it being one of a series of failed attempts to nail her is that it plays into the narrative that Hillary's fanatics like to present. That there's some cabal out to get her.

It is pretty scary that Putin is managing to get a corner on the uranium mining business. But the US mines only provide uranium to the US. But only 20% of the need... And that's the scary part. Still the US government couldn't have stopped the sale of any assets out side of the US which wouldn't have changed the deal if Telfer has sold everything but the Wyoming mines. (Which currently are operating by the way.)