Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:A state in which the public should comply with the police regardless of whether they are operating within the law, through fear of force, violence and death?

Fallacy. Please DEMONSTRATE NYPD violated the law in telling Mr. Garner he was being arrested.

If you can't do that, the rest of your rant is toilet paper.

I believe that they violated the law when an officer put Mr Garner into a hold that interfered with his blood supply and contributes to his death.

And my comment was general, relating to Bbauska's advice to comply. There is no qualification there - whatever an officer tells you to do, for whatever reason, you had best obey in case he kills you.

Or is that not what the advice means?

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:A state in which the public should comply with the police regardless of whether they are operating within the law, through fear of force, violence and death?

Fallacy. Please DEMONSTRATE NYPD violated the law in telling Mr. Garner he was being arrested.

If you can't do that, the rest of your rant is toilet paper.

I believe that they violated the law when an officer put Mr Garner into a hold that interfered with his blood supply and contributes to his death.

And my comment was general, relating to Bbauska's advice to comply. There is no qualification there - whatever an officer tells you to do, for whatever reason, you had best obey in case he kills you.

Or is that not what the advice means?

I wasn't aware your opinion is law.

That is the most incoherent post you've ever written. Then again, when you're trying to defend an indefensible position, incoherence is probably your best strategy.

Neal Anderth wrote:"Let's face it if the suspect had complied with the officer's directives from the initial contact and beyond, we wouldn't be talking about this today."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5RdyEE1DQ

Thank you, Neal! Just when I think someone cannot possibly write anything less on point or insipid, you prove me wrong! Well done!

I'm not the one defending police killing citizens, or on the other thread defending state sponsored torture.

Neal - DF's reaction is a sure sign that you hit a bullseye. Whatever that guy did, standing with a foot on his head and using a torch as a weapon is another example of a police officer using disproportionate force.

danivon wrote:I'm not the one defending police killing citizens, or on the other thread defending state sponsored torture.

No, but you are being a moron. I say that with all the respect I can muster.

I'm not "defending" police. In fact, I've said I would not have done what they did. If that is "defense," then you need a new dictionary.

I'm not supporting "torture." Well, wait a second. I am reading and responding to you your tortured understanding of the English language.

You're a real bit of work.

Neal - DF's reaction is a sure sign that you hit a bullseye.

Neal, Dan's reaction is a sure sign that he's lost his marbles. He used to understand logical fallacies. Now, he praises them.

Whatever that guy did, standing with a foot on his head and using a torch as a weapon is another example of a police officer using disproportionate force.

No, it's using a completely different situation, with completely unknown variables, and trying to draw a comparison. It's moronic and you're applauding. That tells me all I need to know about you.

If you know what the Grand Jury saw and heard regarding the Garner case, feel free to post it. Otherwise, you're just another donkey spewing ignorance.

Have a nice day.

Doctor Fate wrote:

Neal Anderth wrote:"Let's face it if the suspect had complied with the officer's directives from the initial contact and beyond, we wouldn't be talking about this today."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5RdyEE1DQ

Thank you, Neal! Just when I think someone cannot possibly write anything less on point or insipid, you prove me wrong! Well done!

Don't be so defensive. What you're seeing is outrage that a large portion of the citizenry is feeling when it comes to the police. It is the citizens who consent to be governed in America, not the other way around, and when the police stomp on someone's head, or murder, or steal, or are merely another incompetent government bureaucrat who has absolutely no understanding of accountability, it drives the citizenry crazy, which is completely understandable.

You're qualifying everything, like "well, that isn't really a chokehold," but who cares? The guy is dead, a citizen of the United States, one of us, one who has consented to be governed, has been killed by the very people who he has given his consent to. Homicide, makes it really hard for Mr. Garner to exercise, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." At every injustice, we should rage against it, regardless of who is at fault.

geojanes wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:

Neal Anderth wrote:"Let's face it if the suspect had complied with the officer's directives from the initial contact and beyond, we wouldn't be talking about this today."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO5RdyEE1DQ

Thank you, Neal! Just when I think someone cannot possibly write anything less on point or insipid, you prove me wrong! Well done!

Don't be so defensive. What you're seeing is outrage that a large portion of the citizenry is feeling when it comes to the police.

I don't think it's so large as you do. Loud, yes; large, not so much.

It is the citizens who consent to be governed in America, not the other way around, and when the police stomp on someone's head, or murder, or steal, or are merely another incompetent government bureaucrat who has absolutely no understanding of accountability, it drives the citizenry crazy, which is completely understandable.

A stomp on the head?

Anyway, criminal acts are criminal acts. I'm not going to defend those. Never have and never will.

You're qualifying everything, like "well, that isn't really a chokehold," but who cares? The guy is dead, a citizen of the United States, one of us, one who has consented to be governed, has been killed by the very people who he has given his consent to.

His death was a tragedy, and one that could have been prevented. He could have prevented it--and the City of New York could have prevented it.

Homicide, makes it really hard for Mr. Garner to exercise, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." At every injustice, we should rage against it, regardless of who is at fault.

Homicide is not necessarily criminal.

Mr. Garner's pursuit of happiness was in violation of the law. If you don't like that, change the law.

From the files of police behaving badly...http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6324804

freeman3 wrote:From the files of police behaving badly...http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6324804

Please. We can start an anecdote war, but I'm not sure that worthy.

I'm not trying to make any larger point here...

But I guess given the huge numbers of police-citizen interactions perhaps it's a bit unfair to post one bad example. Mea Culpa. But wow...

freeman3 wrote:But I guess given the huge numbers of police-citizen interactions perhaps it's a bit unfair to post one bad example. Mea Culpa. But wow...

I can cite worse.

I can cite great examples of sacrifice.

I can show examples of failing to use fore and that failure leading to death.

There's a basic problem: police officers are . . . Human.

Yes, police officers are human. As such they should be accountable for their actions, especially as they are empowered by the state to wield force. And those who command them are also accountable.

Their humanity is not reason enough to shrug this stuff off.

danivon wrote:Yes, police officers are human. As such they should be accountable for their actions, especially as they are empowered by the state to wield force. And those who command them are also accountable.

Their humanity is not reason enough to shrug this stuff off.

As no one is shrugging it off . . .

Then again, you're not a person who cares for the truth anyway.

fate

There's a basic problem: police officers are . . . Human.

The basic problem is that police officers appear to be unaccountable for actions that are killing people. ,