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Post 21 Jan 2016, 10:24 am

There's no way 40% of voters are really 'independent'. They may not be registered supporters of either party, but you can bet that most of them typically only vote one way.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 10:33 am

Sassenach wrote:There's no way 40% of voters are really 'independent'. They may not be registered supporters of either party, but you can bet that most of them typically only vote one way.


I disagree. There are many disaffected and non-political folks out there who swing from one party to another based upon how they're feeling at the time.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 10:45 am

Let me know when there is a criminal indictment, Brad. The stakes are too high to be worried about some technical issues with handling email unless it is determined by a prosecutorial agency to be a crime given the kind of damage Trump or Cruz could do to the country...
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 10:53 am

freeman3 wrote:Let me know when there is a criminal indictment, Brad. The stakes are too high to be worried about some technical issues with handling email unless it is determined by a prosecutorial agency to be a crime given the kind of damage Trump or Cruz could do to the country...


Are you saying you would not vote for Mrs. Clinton is she were indicted?
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 11:37 am

Sas:
The only one I think there's any doubt about is RJ, and then only if he's faced with the prospect of a Trump candidacy


Not precisely. This is what I wrote on an earlier thread, less those names that are no longer running:
Would choose over Hillary or Bernie:

Christie
Bush
Kasich

Would choose over Bernie:

Rubio
Fiorina
Paul

Wouldn't vote for:

Cruz
Huckabee
Santorum
Carson
Trump


I was surprised to find that I still agree with this view. Given the choice between the far left (Bernie) and the far right, I would probably choose the far left since presumably the Republicans will control Congress and there is a limit to what Sanders can do. However, with a Republican Congress, skilled orators such as Trump (in his way) or Cruz can be particularly dangerous.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 11:42 am

freeman3 wrote:Well if Trump is a jerk what about Cruz? Former Senator Bob Dole said no one likes him in Congress and that if Cruz were the Republican nominee on Election Day he might "oversleep".


Bob Dole is an American hero who is long past understanding the political scene.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 11:56 am

fate
Bob Dole is an American hero who is long past understanding the political scene[/quote

But he knows an ahole when he meets one.


Rayjay
I would probably choose the far left since presumably the Republicans will control Congress and there is a limit to what Sanders can do.


What specific policies that Bernie proposes are you so dead set against?

And as for control of Congress... In Presidential years, there can be enormous coat tails... If Bernie runs against Trump some poll have him up nearly 20 points ... If that were true then perhaps Congress would look very different.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 12:21 pm

rickyp wrote:bbauska
She has an IG report that shows MAJOR security violations


Did you actually read the letter ?
This isn't actually clear. Apparently the classified information may have been classified some time after the email was originally sent. Or the email was of a news paper report about the classified information.


That is not a defense. In fact, she (as Secretary of State) signed a form under which she was supposed to immediately report any security issues. She didn't. She is REQUIRED to know what is/is not sensitive info. And, btw, the info was way above TS/SI. In fact, the IG had to get a security upgrade to review it.

David Petraeus was convicted of violations similar in nature to what Hillary did.

Let me put it another way: if there was a GOP President right now, she would be arrested. Alternatively, if a GOP cabinet officer under Obama had done what she did, he/she would be arrested. She broke the law. It's clear.

At any rate, its unlikely to change any minds about Hillary unless something a good deal more substantive is released. And thats not likely.


Actually, we're learning more all the time. They just don't post it on your socialist websites. The Clinton campaign actually tried to say the IG was in cahoots with the GOP:

“This is the same interagency dispute that has been playing out for months, and it does not change the fact that these emails were not classified at the time they were sent or received” said Clinton Campaign Spokesman Brian Fallon. “It is alarming that the intelligence community IG, working with Republicans in Congress, continues to selectively leak materials in order to resurface the same allegations and try to hurt Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. The Justice Department’s inquiry should be allowed to proceed without any further interference.”


The problem? The IG was appointed by Obama.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 12:38 pm

freeman3 wrote:Let me know when there is a criminal indictment, Brad. The stakes are too high to be worried about some technical issues with handling email unless it is determined by a prosecutorial agency to be a crime given the kind of damage Trump or Cruz could do to the country...


This isn't even close to what is actually going on. They aren't "technical" matters. She brazenly broke the law. She stored SAP-level material on her own private server. That is national security we're talking about--the kind of stuff that may have gotten people killed.

Emails from Hillary Clinton's home server contained information classified at levels higher than previously known, including a level meant to protect some of the most sensitive U.S. intelligence, according to a document obtained by NBC News.

In a letter to lawmakers, the intelligence community's internal watchdog says some of Clinton's emails contained information classified Top Secret/Special Access Program, a secrecy designation that includes some of the most closely held U.S. intelligence matters.

Two American intelligence officials tell NBC News these are not the same two emails from Clinton's server that have long been reported as containing information deemed Top Secret.

The letter, first reported by Fox News, doesn't make clear whether Clinton sent or received the emails in question, but in the past, emails containing classified information have tended to have been sent to Clinton, not written by her.

The new revelation underscores the extent to which the email classification issue could continue to dog Clinton, as State Department and intelligence officials review sensitive information within messages that were blacked out before being released to the public.


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hil ... ig-n499886

An intelligence official familiar with the matter told NBC News that the special access program in question was so sensitive that McCullough and some of his aides had to receive clearance to be read in on it before viewing the sworn declaration about the Clinton emails.

Clinton's campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

While she was secretary of state from 2009 to 2013, Clinton conducted government business over private email. The arrangement was particularly unusual because the email system relied not on Yahoo or Google but her own server, which she kept in her home in Westchester County, N.Y.


Someone please convince me that if it were you or me there would be no charges.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 2:00 pm

Well-thought out list, RJ. I think my list of most acceptable to least acceptable Republican candidates would be similar to your list.

Brad , I would think that if Hillary Clinton were charged that would end her candidacy. If it didn't I would vote for Sanders. If she were the Democratic candidate against Trump or Cruz or similar I would still vote for her.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 2:29 pm

If it is Mrs. Clinton v Mr. Trump, I would vote 3rd party.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 2:34 pm

bbauska wrote:If it is Mrs. Clinton v Mr. Trump, I would vote 3rd party.


I can't rule that out. I'd have a tough time voting for Trump and Clinton should be jailed.
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Post 21 Jan 2016, 4:10 pm

Meanwhile, here's more insight into the violation of national security by Secretary Clinton:

Special Access Programs (SAP) is a game changer. It is now undeniably clear that the results of the FBI investigation will be the end of one of two things: Hillary’s bid for the White House or the legitimacy of the FBI—at least when it comes to prosecuting cases on the mishandling of classified material.

In 2006, a Special Forces Operational Detachment Alpha (ODA) from my company was deployed to Afghanistan. Theirs was a particular mission that differed from the combat missions the typical ODAs were conducting at that time. Everyone on that team maintained a Top Secret Sensitive and Compartmented Information (TS/SCI) clearance and was “read-on” to their special program. A few months into their deployment, their Intelligence Sergeant lost a thumb-drive that possessed classified information. A week later the thumb drive was found for sale at a local bazaar.

In response to the events, Col. Ken Allard (ret.) stated, “You've got a situation in which the U.S. is going to be forced to change an awful lot of its operational techniques."
Beyond the compromise of classified information, a lot did change. New protocols for the handling of classified material were established, and the transportation of classified material on thumb drives was strictly forbidden. The knee jerk reaction even went as far as to disable USB ports on our work computers—in case we forgot.

Since then I’ve deployed to several locations where, at times, we operated in small teams with only non-secure cellphones with which to communicate. We often found ourselves with a lot of information that needed to be sent up in reports, but due to the nature of our mission we were forced to sit on it for a few days until we were able to type it up and send it through a secure medium. I’d be lying if I said we didn’t concoct elaborate plans with “foolproof” ways to communicate the information over non-secure channels, but in the end, no one was willing to take the risk of our “fail-safes” failing.

As more information from Hillary Clinton’s server has been made available, it is clear that the contents of the server contained Imagery Intelligence (IMINT), Human Intelligence (HUMINT), and Signal Intelligence (SIGINT). Understanding that much of the information has been retroactively classified, there are a few facts that are tough to grasp—at least from the perspective of an intelligence practitioner.

First, when imagery that is classified SECRET//NOFORN (no foreign national) is viewed, regardless of the absence of classification markings, it is distinctly evident. Second, any documents that contain or reference HUMINT is always classified SECRET, and if specific names of sources or handlers are mentioned, they are at a minimum SECRET//NOFORN. Third, SIGINT is always classified at the TS level. It’s not uncommon for some SI to be downgraded and shared over SECRET mediums, however, it is highly unlikely that a Secretary of State would receive downgraded intelligence. Finally, SAP intelligence has been discovered on Clinton’s private server, and many are now calling this the smoking gun. SAP is a specialized management system of additional security controls designed to protect SAR or Special Access Required. SAR has to do with extremely perishable operational methods and capabilities, and only selected individuals who are “read on” or “indoctrinated” are permitted access to these programs. The mishandling of SAP can cause catastrophic damage to current collection methods, techniques and personnel.

In other words, if you have worked with classified material for more than a day, it seems highly implausible that someone could receive any of the aforementioned over an un-secure medium without alarm bells sounding. However, reading about a Special Access Program on an unclassified device would make anyone even remotely familiar with intelligence mess their pantsuit.

With more damning information being released almost weekly now, it’s interesting that during last Sunday’s Democratic debate, Clinton resoundingly stated: “No one is too big for jail.” Although the context was referencing bank CEOs and Hedge fund managers, the obvious correlation left many scratching their heads and wondering—did Hillary Clinton just say, “I dare you” to the FBI?”

DeChristopher is a 9-year veteran of the United States Army Special Forces. He holds an M.A. in Strategic Security Studies from National Defense University’s College of International Security Affairs with a concentration in Irregular Warfare. He currently works as an Independent Intelligence Consultant


The only question is whether politics trumps (no pun intended) the law.
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Post 22 Jan 2016, 7:03 am

Sassenach wrote:There's no way 40% of voters are really 'independent'. They may not be registered supporters of either party, but you can bet that most of them typically only vote one way.


It also varies a lot by state, partially because of temperament, and sometimes because of a state's rules on primary voting. In Mass. and N.H., registered independent voters can vote in either primary, whereas Republican or Democrat voters are locked in. In other states, registered independents cannot vote in either party.

In New Hampshire, the dynamics of each race impacts the other. For example, since Bernie and Hillary are neck and neck, independents are more likely to vote in the Democratic primary. As a result, more moderate Republicans may do worse in the Republican primary.
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Post 22 Jan 2016, 9:16 am

rayjay
In New Hampshire, the dynamics of each race impacts the other. For example, since Bernie and Hillary are neck and neck, independents are more likely to vote in the Democratic primary. As a result, more moderate Republicans may do worse in the Republican primary.


Kasich is running second there according to RCP... He's a genuinely sane choice and if he runs second perhaps he can be someone around which the non-Trump - non-Cruz could coalesce.