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Post 28 Oct 2011, 7:13 am

Neal Anderth wrote:I'm going to repeat myself by again sharing a bit of the Constitution:

First Amendment – "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Any action by the government or its agents to the contrary is invalid.


I would emphasize the word "peaceably." When they are defying valid dispersal orders because of city ordinances, private property, public health, etc., the actions of the government are not "invalid." Now, they may be challenged in court, but they should not be challenged by mob action.

geojanes, the protesters are in D.C. too. Thanks for your additional comments regarding Liberty Plaza.


However, logically, the protests ought to be entitled "Occupy DC." That's where the problem is. Wall Street didn't bail itself out. Wall Street cannot engage in crony capitalism without a willing partner--one who is supposed to be the People's voice.

If it wasn't for the police interventions this whole thing would likely be over with already. When you tell people they can't do something they believe they should be free to do it gets them riled up.


That's one perspective. The other would be that when you have a core (however large or small the core may be) of protesters who are either socialists, communists, or anarchists, they won't easily give in.

Again, look at the Tea Party protests. They were bigger, but we didn't see these kind of confrontations. Why not?

Meanwhile, Oakland, which is broke, has spent more than $1M on the protests.

Moveon.org: "Power to the people!" (everyone chant!)

Either these people are useful idiots or those organizations (like moveon) are foolishly stirring the pot and hoping revolution and/or riots don't result.

The sooner OWS ends or becomes a legitimate sub-group of the Democratic Party (like the Tea Party did with the GOP), the better. Street mobs of the sort we see now, will not be a "good" thing.
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Post 28 Oct 2011, 10:22 am

danivon wrote:I think they see DC as the monkey to Wall St's organ grinder.


That's a great image. Thanks.
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Post 28 Oct 2011, 10:41 am

geojanes wrote:
danivon wrote:I think they see DC as the monkey to Wall St's organ grinder.


That's a great image. Thanks.
It's a NYC thing, I believe, the practice of having performing monkeys who would dance to the organ and also collect money from onlookers. According to wikipedia, the performing monkey were banned in 1887 from the streets of New York.

Over here, the phrase "I don't want to talk to the monkey, take me to the organ grinder" applies to when you are presented with an underling (or even a figurehead) instead of those with real responsibility.

Thus, the protesters are camped out where the organ grinders work, not where the monkeys dance to their tunes...
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Post 28 Oct 2011, 10:53 am

By the way, over here we have our 'Occupy' protests, under the label Occupy the London Stock Exchange (Occupy LSX).

There are two camps, one of which has been pretty controversial as it is outside St Paul's Cathedral (which is right in the middle of the City of London where the Exchanges and major banks are based) and there have been disputes within the church authorities and further afield after the Cathedral closed as a result of 'Health & Safety' concerns. It now looks like the Cathedral will work with the City of London Corporation (the anachronistic 'local government' for the area which is elected by corporations as much as by local residents and which owns part of the land) to evict them. Legal processes could take months though, so as ricky points out, a period of snow and ice is more likely to make a difference than any court order.

After all those disputes, it came out that the 100 companies on the main FTSE index saw the remuneration for board-level executives go up 49% in a year, at a period when some comparator stats are:

Median private sector pay increase: 2.6%
FTSE change over 12 months: from 5675 to 5702 (+27, or less than 0.5%) - and it was some way lower until this week.
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Post 28 Oct 2011, 7:02 pm

danivon wrote:After all those disputes, it came out that the 100 companies on the main FTSE index saw the remuneration for board-level executives go up 49% in a year, at a period when some comparator stats are:
Median private sector pay increase: 2.6%
FTSE change over 12 months: from 5675 to 5702 (+27, or less than 0.5%) - and it was some way lower until this week.


Yeah, but Dan, it's a global market, the Brits have to keep up with the Americans, otherwise they won't be able to compete for the best talent. It's necessary, don't you see?

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Bhaw haw haw haw!!!!! Almost said that with a straight face. Almost.
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Post 28 Oct 2011, 7:29 pm

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — The first financial report of the Occupy Wall Street demonstration in New York City shows protesters have raised more than $454,000 and have spent slightly more than $50,000 in the movement's first five weeks, a person close to the movement said Friday.

Only in America, doesn't even count the value of donated occupies
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Post 29 Oct 2011, 6:16 am

Neal Anderth wrote:ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — The first financial report of the Occupy Wall Street demonstration in New York City shows protesters have raised more than $454,000 and have spent slightly more than $50,000 in the movement's first five weeks, a person close to the movement said Friday.

Only in America, doesn't even count the value of donated occupies


Oh, those OWS people are sweethearts! How many are being arrested? And, for what? How much are they costing cash-strapped cities?

The other "nice" thing their allies are doing? Suppressing free speech. There is a website, owsexposed.com, which chronicles the movement's ill-done deeds. Guess what website has been under denial of service attack (including the moment I'm writing this)?

But one example of how terrific these protests are:

City officials temporarily denied Occupy Madison a new street use permit Wednesday after protesters violated public health and safety conditions and failed to follow the correct processes to renew or amend a permit.

The permit, which expired Wednesday at noon, required Occupy Madison protesters to relocate from their current space at 30 West Mifflin Street, also called 30 on the Square.

A neighboring hotel's staff alleged voiced concerns about having to recently escort hotel employees to and from bus stops late at night due to inappropriate behavior, such as public masturbation, from street protesters.

In addition, officials agreed further occupation should not be allowed to continue without restrooms on site to avoid further public health violations.
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Post 29 Oct 2011, 9:09 am

A neighboring hotel's staff alleged voiced concerns about having to recently escort hotel employees to and from bus stops late at night due to inappropriate behavior, such as public masturbation, from street protesters.

Protestors have taken matters into their own hands?
Obviously made up. Its far too cold in Wisconsin for this to be taking place.
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Post 29 Oct 2011, 10:26 am

RickyP's assertion must be based in fact... After all, he is north of the border...
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Post 30 Oct 2011, 10:14 pm

here's A logo for OWS

Image
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Post 31 Oct 2011, 6:25 am

When the Tea Party assembled and protested, liberals ran around with microphones and interviewed the quirkier elements and used those displays of (choose one or more) ignorance, intolerance, inananity to attempt to disqualify the central theme of the Tea Party.
Now, the conservatives attempt the same thing.
The central theme of the Tea Party; Big Government is ruining the nation ...isn't refuted because a few idiots say racist things.
The central theme of the OSW is that the political econimc system is gamed by Wall street to their advantage aand to the disadvantage of the working and middle classes. This isn't refuted because some idiot in Wisconsin was wanking in public. (Unless he worked for Goldman Sachs)

The problem for the Tea Party is that too many Americans, including their own members, like the benefits of govenrment (Medicare, Social Security, the police, and fire services, the military ....even teachers). They just don't want to have to pay for it.
The problem for OSW isn't entirely clear yet. It may be a sense that whatever they do won't matter...

Guapo: A good logo is no more than 5 words. 7 tops. You have to be able to take it all in in a billboard.
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Post 31 Oct 2011, 7:37 am

rickyp wrote:When the Tea Party assembled and protested, liberals ran around with microphones and interviewed the quirkier elements and used those displays of (choose one or more) ignorance, intolerance, inananity to attempt to disqualify the central theme of the Tea Party.
Now, the conservatives attempt the same thing.


Just some great folks trying to raise awareness of economic injustice?

Sure.

"We're asking people not to go to work and not to go to school that day," he said.

He said he was unsure of the timing of closing down the port.

The occupy protests in Oakland, which began Oct. 11, have resulted in more than 100 arrests and included a violent confrontation last week between protestors wielding bottles, rocks and firecrackers and police using tear gas.

The majority of protesters are peaceful, Anderson said. At a march Saturday night, some young men tried to rush the police line with homemade shields. Anderson said he and others stood between them and the police, shouting "peace" and telling them to calm down and not provoke retaliation.

Jordan Hunter, 40, of San Rafael, Calif., said she came from Occupy Marin to help rebuild the Oakland site after police removed it.

"It's kind of a big social experiment in living outside the expectations created by the economic structure we live in," she said.

Elsewhere:

•Police cleared out a plaza in Richmond, Va., early Monday that had been home to protesters, ordering out dozens of people who had encamped there since Oct. 17 and arresting those who refused to leave.

•Police in Portland, Ore., arrested about 30 anti-Wall Street protesters Sunday, dragging and carrying them to waiting vans, after they refused to leave a park in an affluent district.

• Dozens of protesters were arrested Sunday in Austin, where they clashed with police over food tables.

•In Nashville, about 50 demonstrators chanted "Whose plaza? Our plaza!" in defiance of an official curfew. As people danced to keep warm on a chilly Sunday morning, police monitored the activity but made no arrests.


We are not Greece. This will not go over well. As time goes on, OWS will be something Democrats will regret embracing.

Most Americans work or are looking for work. The concept of protesting/camping and not working is not going to gain sympathy:

DENVER (AP) - The simmering tension near the Colorado Capitol escalated dramatically Saturday with more than a dozen arrests, reports of skirmishes between police and protesters and authorities firing rounds of pellets filled with pepper spray at supporters of the Occupy Wall Street movement.

Officers in riot gear moved into a park late in the day where protesters were attempting to establish an encampment, hauling off demonstrators just hours after a standoff at the Capitol steps degenerated into a fight that ended in a cloud of Mace and pepper spray.

Denver police spokesman Matt Murray said 15 people were arrested in the evening confrontation, where authorities were moving to prevent protesters from setting up tents in the park, which are illegal. Officals say the demonstrators had been warned several times that the tents would not be allowed and those who attempted to stop police from dismantling the camp gear were arrested. Protesters have been staying in the park for weeks, but tents have repeatedly been removed.

Murray said that most of the protesters were peaceful but there was "just a die-hard group that didn't want to cooperate."

"We showed great restraint," he said. "We were calm. We went in and did what we had to do. There's a group of very committed people who believe in a cause, and then there are a few people who just want to cause trouble."

Earlier in the day about 2,000 protesters rallying against what they see as economic inequality and corporate greed marched downtown toward the Capitol, setting up the most intense moments of the Denver movement, which has lasted weeks.

A group of the marchers advanced toward the building and some tried to make their way up the steps. About eight officers scuffled with a group of protesters and police confirmed that they used Mace and fired pepper balls - hollow projectiles filled with the chemical irritant - to break up the crowd. Protesters told the paper at the time that they believed police used rubber bullets.

Murray said protesters kicked police and knocked one officer off his motorcycle. He said five protesters were arrested, including two for assault and one for disobedience.

Chantrell Smiley, 21, of Denver, said she has been protesting downtown for more than a week, sleeping on the ground in the park. She said she didn't see the officer get knocked from his motorcycle and didn't see any reason for the afternoon confrontation.

"It was just chaos. This wasn't necessary. My friend got hit with rubber bullets in the face. He was screaming and bleeding, then they Maced him. We're being peaceful. We don't want to be harmed. They came through and took everything down - our food, our blankets, everything's gone."

Mike Korzen, 25, told the Denver Post that he was among the group that police dispersed with rubber bullets and pepper spray and suggested that the police force was excessive.


If you think OWS is a net positive for Obama, you don't understand the US.
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Post 01 Nov 2011, 12:40 pm

Fraud alert! The anti-capitalists want to make a buck:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Even anarchic movements like to have some legal protections: Occupy Wall Street's organizers have applied to trademark their movement's name.

In an application dated October 24, the unincorporated association "Occupy Wall Street" applied for the trademark to "Occupy Wall Street." The trademark application says the group would like to use the phrase on merchandise such as clothing and bags, in periodicals and newsletters, and on a website featuring "photographic, audio, video and prose presentations" about the Occupy movement.

The Occupy group has been screen-printing t-shirts and other items in Zuccotti Park, and plans to continue doing so once it has trademark protection, according to a representative.


Nice list of supporters here. Read's like a "who's who" of main street . . . in some worker's utopia.

Oh, and a tip of the hat to liberal mayor, Mike Bloomberg:

"I hear your complaints," Bloomberg said. "Some of them are totally unfounded. It was not the banks that created the mortgage crisis. It was, plain and simple, Congress who forced everybody to go and give mortgages to people who were on the cusp. Now, I'm not saying I'm sure that was terrible policy, because a lot of those people who got homes still have them and they wouldn't have gotten them without that.

"But they were the ones who pushed Fannie and Freddie to make a bunch of loans that were imprudent, if you will. They were the ones that pushed the banks to loan to everybody. And now we want to go vilify the banks because it's one target, it's easy to blame them and congress certainly isn't going to blame themselves. At the same time, Congress is trying to pressure banks to loosen their lending standards to make more loans. This is exactly the same speech they criticized them for."

Bloomberg went on to say it's "cathartic" and "entertaining" to blame people, but the important thing now is to fix the problem.
Last edited by Doctor Fate on 01 Nov 2011, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 01 Nov 2011, 12:46 pm

Maybe they are not all bloodthirsty revolutionary socialists as you would have us believe?

After all, I guess that Main Street is just as put out by the behaviour of Wall Street over recent years.
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Post 01 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:We are not Greece.
True enough, Greece is proposing a national referendum before it accept the latest bail out plans.