Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:It was sarcasm.

Mr. Barrister, let the man defend himself--unless you're on his payroll.

Or vice-versa...

bbauska wrote:Just curious...

Does this ruling pave the way for gay marriage ceremonies to be performed in churches w/o the right of refusal?

I doubt that--initially.

Eventually, someone will make a case of it and we'll find out which "right" carries greater weight: the one guaranteed by Amendment to the Constitution or the one Kennedy made up so people can feel better about themselves.

I think that would be an infringement on religion so no. I doubt there will be a case.

Actually, I think this is a battle between Commerce and Religion. If there is a sale of services or venue the Commerce aspect of equality is taking effect. However, as most churches charge for the rental of the venue, I see that this could be open to Commerce.

I think that would be a bad thing.

Well, if a church uses its facilities just for weddings for its own denomination I think they should have a right to limit it that way. When they open it up to more general use...then they might have a problem.

freeman3 wrote:Well, if a church uses its facilities just for weddings for its own denomination I think they should have a right to limit it that way. When they open it up to more general use...then they might have a problem.

My point exactly. Churches are going to stop serving the general public to avoid litigation.

bbauska wrote:Just curious...

Does this ruling pave the way for gay marriage ceremonies to be performed in churches w/o the right of refusal?

I don't think it does. Do Catholic churches have to marry divorcees? Do Orthodox synagogues have to marry gentiles? Nope.

This is one area where freedom of religion comes in.

Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:DF - is sexuality a protected characteristic in US employment law?

Yes.

And how enforceable is it where you have easy Hire & Fire?

As enforceable as it is anywhere.

DF - I don't think hysterical citing of cases which were dropped (so of course never actually resulted in a court case, let alone a victory for "teh gayz") really backs up your story of widespread oppression in Canada.

Oh. Stop.

If I cite 100 cases, is that enough? 500? 1000? Give me a number. I just need to know how serious you're being. I sense somewhere about 0%.

If the cases are silly ones that get dropped you can cite them all you like but they can't create an an ounce of precedent.

And it was.the article you linked to that was citing dropped cases.

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:Just curious...

Does this ruling pave the way for gay marriage ceremonies to be performed in churches w/o the right of refusal?

I don't think it does. Do Catholic churches have to marry divorcees? Do Orthodox synagogues have to marry gentiles? Nope.

This is one area where freedom of religion comes in.

I hope you are right. Unfortunately, I do see Freedom of Religion as being trumped. It has been trumped a great deal lately.

Except you are assuming that this would propagate. I would advise we wait until it is actually tested. Because it is clearly a completely different test to whether the government should bar gay marriage.

danivon wrote:Except you are assuming that this would propagate. I would advise we wait until it is actually tested. Because it is clearly a completely different test to whether the government should bar gay marriage.

Please note my concern. I am concerned that it will propagate/conflagrate. I felt the same way about Civil Union/Marriage 5 years ago.

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:Just curious...

Does this ruling pave the way for gay marriage ceremonies to be performed in churches w/o the right of refusal?

I don't think it does. Do Catholic churches have to marry divorcees? Do Orthodox synagogues have to marry gentiles? Nope.

But, of course, you are missing the obvious.

Supposing two Jewish homosexuals wish to get married at a synagogue?

What if two Catholic homosexuals want a church wedding?

There have been no challenges on this previously because of shame (and in the case of the RCC because you can buy an indulgence so they annul your first marriage).

We shall see. I am not a prophet or the son of a prophet, but challenges are going to come.

Doctor Fate wrote:We shall see. I am not a prophet or the son of a prophet, but challenges are going to come.

By the way, my prediction is based on past behavior. Several of the bakery/florist cases were brought by couples who knew exactly what they were doing. They were spoiling for a suit, so they went to Christian vendors. Homosexual couples will go after churches exactly the same way. The goal is not equality, but to cow certain groups (namely conservative religious groups) into submission. They will comply with the edict that homosexual behavior is not sinful or they will be crushed.

Fate:

Supposing two Jewish homosexuals wish to get married at a synagogue?

Already happens at Reform synagogues.

Ray Jay wrote:Fate:

Supposing two Jewish homosexuals wish to get married at a synagogue?

Already happens at Reform synagogues.

All the more fuel for the fire, but, of course, what I had in mind was a more Orthodox (old school) form of Judaism.

Homosexuals can get married in churches too, just not in those that care about what Jesus said.