rickyp wrote:Yeah I do have to ask Danivon.
I don't want to offend your delicate sensibilities so i need to understand them

First of all, it makes no sense for you to insult me on these pages because Danivon says that I took offense. All I've been doing is trading phone calls with my insurance agent and not really seeing the point of posting until then.

Second, Ricky, you could care less about anyone's sensibilities. No doubt you conduct your personal life with as much insensitivity as you post on Redscape. We've all got your number.

Ray Jay wrote:

rickyp wrote:Yeah I do have to ask Danivon.
I don't want to offend your delicate sensibilities so i need to understand them

First of all, it makes no sense for you to insult me on these pages because Danivon says that I took offense. All I've been doing is trading phone calls with my insurance agent and not really seeing the point of posting until then.

Second, Ricky, you could care less about anyone's sensibilities. No doubt you conduct your personal life with as much insensitivity as you post on Redscape. We've all got your number.

I did not say that you had taken offense, RJ. I was saying that I found the approach taken to be counter-productive, in that the tenor of the comments seemed to be that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about, even though clearly your own premiums and plan is something you do know about.

Of course, if you did take offence (which it looks as if you have), I not only understand that, but would say that this merely adds to my point about how Ricky approached the debate.

By the way, Ricky, the full lyric is "If you have to ask, you'll never know". Just as so long as you can't tell the difference between 'sympathy' and 'empathy' even after staring at dictionaries means that no level of 'splaining from us is going to help you get there any quicker.

ray

First of all, it makes no sense for you to insult me on these pages because Danivon says that I took offense

?
I'm responding to Danivon. he's the guy who seems to have taken offence.

I didn't think you were offended by your experience being called an outlier. (Based on the liked study) I wonder why you would be?

ray

Second, Ricky, you could care less about anyone's sensibilities.

Well, I've built up a thick skin myself after the thousands of slings and arrows slung my way, so i guess the rest of you anonymous people should too.

Seriously. Why is outlier an insult?

3-way conversations can be challenging. I'm not offended by being an outlier. In fact, I like it. It's another way of saying exceptional.

In any topic where it is personal (such as someone actually paying for insurance) as opposed to a theoretical discussion about how some other country should conduct it's affairs) most human beings inherently understand that you should be more considerate. It's also pretty normal to understand that people who are in a country may understand its policies and situation better than those who look from afar. Assuming that they don't is both arrogant and unwise. As a tourist it's pretty ugly to dis the locals before you understand their lives.

Similarly when discussing old and dangerous stereotypes about minorities, such as Jews are greedy and control the government through their wealth, or that Jews care more about a foreign power than their own country, or that blacks are lazy or less intelligent, most people tread cautiously if at all. You should be particularly careful about the facts and your sources. When someone questions them have the decency to fully support your previous literal words. Don't misinterpret; bob and weave, or pretend they or you wrote something that wasn't written. BTW, all of those stereotypes are alive and well.

Regarding health insurance, before Romney care came along, I paid $300 per month. I now pay about 5X that. That's a lot of inflation in 9 years. Yes, I do have better insurance now; and yes I'm a bit older and insurance companies rate for risk, but primarily this is a function of federal and state mandates of all sorts from drug addiction treatment to fertility treatment, to other stuff that doesn't apply to my family, or that I just don't want. I do fault Obama. He certainly didn't bend the cost curve down. Perhaps it is at the same slope. Perhaps it is worse. But he didn't tackle any of the drivers that cause astronomical increases in health care.

All politicians inherit their predecessor's policies. Vote for me so I can change them ... oops I made them slightly worse ... this is problematic ... but wait, it was harder than I thought ... I didn't get everything I wanted ... it was the other party's fault ... re-elect me and I will fix it some more ... it turns out I need more funding to fix it ... rinse, repeat till eternity.

Not including all the money that I funnel to AIPAC, my biggest expenditures are health insurance, property taxes, and putting away for kids' college. This is all stuff that is being driven by poor liberal government policy!

RJ - how much of these mandates are Romneycare state level ones? And of the ACA ones, how many would be covered by Romneycare as well if the ACA didn't exist?

Because Obama was not President 9 years ago, and the ACA did not come into force, taking the 9 year trend does not give us a very full picture. Especially if your cover did change in the same period. Surely you blame others and not just Obama?

danivon wrote:RJ - how much of these mandates are Romneycare state level ones? And of the ACA ones, how many would be covered by Romneycare as well if the ACA didn't exist?

Because Obama was not President 9 years ago, and the ACA did not come into force, taking the 9 year trend does not give us a very full picture. Especially if your cover did change in the same period. Surely you blame others and not just Obama?

Most are from Romney.

Yes, I blame many others besides Obama. I think that politicians in general are way over their heads when they distort markets and they create huge problems that the next generation of politicians can campaign on and then make worse.

Washington State Healthcare exchange is $125 million short of budget, and it asked the legislature for more funding.

Tell you what; that costs me more money. Nothing is coming into budget as it was sold to the people.

Question: when rates are mentioned, does it take into consideration all factors? In other words, not just monthly rates, but deductibles, fees, and even narrowing of networks?

Good news in CA! Only a 4.2% increase this year! But . . .

A recent study of nine states found that insurers wanted to raise premiums by an average of 8% for individual health plans, according to consulting firm Avalere Health. Insurers are seeking double-digit rate increases in some states.

ray

In any topic where it is personal (such as someone actually paying for insurance) as opposed to a theoretical discussion about how some other country should conduct it's affairs) most human beings inherently understand that you should be more considerate

Now, be fair. The outlier comment wasn't all I said to you.. (And yes it does make you exceptional. Just not in a good way unfortunately.)
I did say your expenses are outrageous... and they are.
But US health insurance costs, and administration experiences have been outrageous for decades versus the experience of anyone not living in the US.
You don't change the outrageous costs of your system without fundamental changes and the ACA is not a fundamental change.
Our companies US sales reps are all personally employed and have been struggling with insurance premiums for years... Being owned by Canadians doesn't help because its an issue that we don't have and therefore tend to forget. (Thats a result of the government interfering in the health care market too, by the way. Same as the UK, Germany etc. )

Here's whats interesting about the ACA. Its slowly gaining acceptance as reality. Probably won't even be an election issue in 2016.
The over claims by critics may have actually made the eventual reality more bearable...
Claims like:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/1 ... 85106.html

rickyp wrote:Now, be fair. The outlier comment wasn't all I said to you.. (And yes it does make you exceptional. Just not in a good way unfortunately.)

Well, if you read further up on the thread, you'll find that my experience is also like RJ's, but in my case, while my premium went down, it was only because I decided to go with a high deductible plan with an outrageous deductible, instead of keeping the same benefits. So I'm insured, yes, but it doesn't pay for anything until I reach the 5 digits of expenses. Gee, thanks. Had I kept my coverage the same, it would have been a comparable increase to what RJ saw.

I would say that we are not outliers. The class of people who have income, and don't receive a subsidy from Obamacare, and get insurance individually, is a class that is screwed, and it's screwed because of the fundamentals of insurance: this group is now a part of a risk pool that now costs more to insure. If everyone in that circumstance experiences the same effect, that's not an outlier.

I'm sure that if Congress could actually talk to each other it could be fixed, or at least made better, but until then, we're stuck with a flawed system.

geojanes wrote:

rickyp wrote:Now, be fair. The outlier comment wasn't all I said to you.. (And yes it does make you exceptional. Just not in a good way unfortunately.)

Well, if you read further up on the thread, you'll find that my experience is also like RJ's, but in my case, while my premium went down, it was only because I decided to go with a high deductible plan with an outrageous deductible, instead of keeping the same benefits. So I'm insured, yes, but it doesn't pay for anything until I reach the 5 digits of expenses. Gee, thanks. Had I kept my coverage the same, it would have been a comparable increase to what RJ saw.

I would say that we are not outliers. The class of people who have income, and don't receive a subsidy from Obamacare, and get insurance individually, is a class that is screwed, and it's screwed because of the fundamentals of insurance: this group is now a part of a risk pool that now costs more to insure. If everyone in that circumstance experiences the same effect, that's not an outlier.

I'm sure that if Congress could actually talk to each other it could be fixed, or at least made better, but until then, we're stuck with a flawed system.

Amen ... I am signing up for a high deductible plan as well.

If the LA Times is right, the fight over ACA is essentially over.

http://www.latimes.com/business/healthc ... tml#page=1

After five years and more than 50 votes in Congress, the Republican campaign to repeal the Affordable Care Act is essentially over
"Only 18% of Americans want to go back to the system we had before because they do not want to go back to some of the problems we had," Whit Ayres, a veteran Republican pollster who works for presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, said at a recent breakfast hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.
"Smart Republicans in this area get that," he added.
These developments have sapped enthusiasm among Republican leaders for "pulling out Obamacare root and branch," as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) once put i

t.

rickyp wrote:If the LA Times is right, the fight over ACA is essentially over.

http://www.latimes.com/business/healthc ... tml#page=1

After five years and more than 50 votes in Congress, the Republican campaign to repeal the Affordable Care Act is essentially over
"Only 18% of Americans want to go back to the system we had before because they do not want to go back to some of the problems we had," Whit Ayres, a veteran Republican pollster who works for presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, said at a recent breakfast hosted by the Christian Science Monitor.
"Smart Republicans in this area get that," he added.
These developments have sapped enthusiasm among Republican leaders for "pulling out Obamacare root and branch," as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) once put i

t.

Nah, read the whole article. Republicans just don't want to leave millions with nothing. That doesn't mean that what is left will resemble the ACA. Over time, most, if not all, of the ACA will be repealed and/or replaced if the GOP wins the Presidency.

The law is still not popular.

fate

Over time, most, if not all, of the ACA will be repealed and/or replaced if the GOP wins the Presidency

.
I guess that depends on how many terms Hilary decides to serve...

After 50 votes in the House to repeal, government shut downs, and this kind of claim

"But the GOP confronts a very different landscape from 2010, when the party pledged full repeal with warnings the law would "ruin the best healthcare system in the world and bankrupt our country," as then-House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) said.

you now have main stream republicans saying,

This acknowledges that the ACA is the law and … you have to start with what is there and build on it," said former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt,

Looks like Obama has his legacy. But this makes your explode near explode huh Fate.

rickyp wrote:fate

Over time, most, if not all, of the ACA will be repealed and/or replaced if the GOP wins the Presidency

.
I guess that depends on how many terms Hilary decides to serve...

After 50 votes in the House to repeal, government shut downs, and this kind of claim

"But the GOP confronts a very different landscape from 2010, when the party pledged full repeal with warnings the law would "ruin the best healthcare system in the world and bankrupt our country," as then-House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) said.

you now have main stream republicans saying,

This acknowledges that the ACA is the law and … you have to start with what is there and build on it," said former Utah Gov. Mike Leavitt,

Looks like Obama has his legacy. But this makes your explode near explode huh Fate.

Wrong, as usual. How popular is the ACA? The GOP rode opposition to it to control the Senate.

Obama's legacy? Doubling the Debt, chaos in the Middle East, greatest expansion of the executive branch's power since FDR, most cynical politician since Nixon.

Hillary?

Running as everywoman and trying to raise $2.5B t the same time? That would be a tough lift for a deft politician. She is not that.

Let me know when the ACA is popular.