danivon wrote:If this is whataboutery, surely you don't want me to prove that Reagan was not actually continually hounded by the Democrats over Beirut.

But it's 'whataboutery', so let's ignore any similarities.

Back to the subject. So the State department should have increased security at Embassies in the Middle East for 9/11. Now, what had Congress done recently to the State Department's budgets - increased it to allow for improved security, or cut it?

In fact, more House Democrats – 149 of them — voted for the cuts than did House Republicans, of which 147 voted for them.

freeman3 wrote:Yeah, 241 dead marines vs. 4 dead in Benghazi. I don't think that was an issue in the 1984 election where Reagan won in a historic landslide. Reagan may have been criticized but it did not last long and he was not investigated about it. And Republicans are still trying to get Obama, Hillary, Democrats over Benghazi....It does not seem quite fair, does it?

freeman3 wrote:Yeah, 241 dead marines vs. 4 dead in Benghazi. I don't think that was an issue in the 1984 election where Reagan won in a historic landslide. Reagan may have been criticized but it did not last long and he was not investigated about it. And Republicans are still trying to get Obama, Hillary, Democrats over Benghazi....It does not seem quite fair, does it?

Doctor Fate wrote:

Back to the subject. So the State department should have increased security at Embassies in the Middle East for 9/11. Now, what had Congress done recently to the State Department's budgets - increased it to allow for improved security, or cut it?

Oh, nice try. However, that has nothing to do with whether we should have stayed in Benghazi, does it?

And, even if you want to continue that, there's a problem:

In fact, more House Democrats – 149 of them — voted for the cuts than did House Republicans, of which 147 voted for them.

Only a problem if you are looking for partisan points to score. The point is that this was Congress, not the Administration, making cuts. The majority of each party supported the cuts in the House.

Further, you've not addressed the video theory: if it was not clear that it was straight-up terror from the beginning, shouldn't the Administration and the military have taken note of the events in Cairo and done something re Benghazi? Anything?

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Further, you've not addressed the video theory: if it was not clear that it was straight-up terror from the beginning, shouldn't the Administration and the military have taken note of the events in Cairo and done something re Benghazi? Anything?

In April 2012, two former security guards for the consulate threw a homemade "fish bomb" IED over the consulate fence; the incident did not cause any casualties.[37] Just 4 days later, a similar bomb was thrown at a four vehicle convoy carrying the United Nations Special Envoy to Libya, exploding just 12 feet from the UN envoy's vehicle without injuring anyone.[38]
In May 2012 an Al-Qaida affiliate calling itself the Imprisoned Omar Abdul Rahman Brigades claimed responsibility for an attack on the International Red Cross (ICRC) office in Benghazi. On August 6 the ICRC suspended operations in Benghazi. The head of the ICRC's delegation in Libya said the aid group was "appalled" by the attack and "extremely concerned" about escalating violence in Libya.[39]
The Imprisoned Omar Abdul Rahman Brigades released a video of what it said was its detonation of an explosive device outside the gates of the U.S. consulate on June 5, which caused no casualties but damaged the consulate's perimeter wall,[40][41] described by one individual as "big enough for forty men to go through."[42] The Brigades claimed that the attack was in response to the killing of Abu Yahya al Libi, a Libyan al-Qaeda leader who had just died in an American drone attack, and was also timed to coincide with the imminent arrival of a U.S. diplomat.[43][44] There were no injuries, but the group left behind leaflets promising more attacks against the U.S.[45]
British ambassador to Libya Dominic Asquith survived an assassination attempt in Benghazi on June 10. Two British protection officers were injured in the attack when their convoy was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade 300 yards from their consulate office.[46] The British Foreign Office withdrew all consular staff from Benghazi in late June.[47][48][49]
On June 18, 2012, the Tunisian consulate in Benghazi was stormed by individuals affiliated with Ansar Al-Sharia Libya, allegedly because of "attacks by Tunisian artists against Islam."[26]:31
On the day of the attack:
Al Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahiri declared that al Libi's death still needed to be avenged.[50]
In Egypt, 2000 Salafist activists protested against the film Innocence of Muslims at 5pm EET (11am EDT) at the US embassy in Cairo.[51]
President Obama was attending a 9/11 ceremony in the morning, and in the afternoon he visited with wounded veterans at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for two-and-a-half hours about the time the Benghazi attack began.[52]
Two consulate security guards spotted a man in a Libyan police uniform taking pictures of the consulate with his cell phone from a nearby building that was under construction. The security guards briefly detained the man before releasing him. He drove away in a police car and a complaint was made to the Libyan police station. Sean Smith noticed this surveillance, posting on the internet "assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures."[26]:34

After the attack, a Benghazi security official and a battalion commander had met with U.S. diplomats three days before the attack and had warned the Americans about deteriorating security in the area. The official told CNN that the diplomats had been advised, "The situation is frightening, it scares us."[53]

On September 14, CNN correspondent Arwa Damon found Ambassador Stevens' diary at the unsecured site of the attack. In it, Stevens expressed his concern about the growing al-Qaeda presence in the area and his worry about being on an al-Qaeda hit list. The U.S. State Department later accused CNN of violating privacy and breaking its promise to Stevens' family that it would not report on the diary.(emphasis mine)

This happened a few hours before the attack in Benghazi (indeed it was still going on). What time would there be to learn from it, and what could they learn? And without the considerable benefit of hindsight that we have now - be realistic.

Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Further, you've not addressed the video theory: if it was not clear that it was straight-up terror from the beginning, shouldn't the Administration and the military have taken note of the events in Cairo and done something re Benghazi? Anything?

Cairo happened on 11 Sept 2012 as well. While there were about 3,000 protesters there, some letting off fireworks, only a dozen or so guys got into the compound and committed acts of vandalism. They were later dispersed, without the need for the guards to use their weapons (the local police and army were there and encouraged the crowd to leave eventually).

In April 2012, two former security guards for the consulate threw a homemade "fish bomb" IED over the consulate fence; the incident did not cause any casualties.[37] Just 4 days later, a similar bomb was thrown at a four vehicle convoy carrying the United Nations Special Envoy to Libya, exploding just 12 feet from the UN envoy's vehicle without injuring anyone.[38]
In May 2012 an Al-Qaida affiliate calling itself the Imprisoned Omar Abdul Rahman Brigades claimed responsibility for an attack on the International Red Cross (ICRC) office in Benghazi. On August 6 the ICRC suspended operations in Benghazi. The head of the ICRC's delegation in Libya said the aid group was "appalled" by the attack and "extremely concerned" about escalating violence in Libya.[39]
The Imprisoned Omar Abdul Rahman Brigades released a video of what it said was its detonation of an explosive device outside the gates of the U.S. consulate on June 5, which caused no casualties but damaged the consulate's perimeter wall,[40][41] described by one individual as "big enough for forty men to go through."[42] The Brigades claimed that the attack was in response to the killing of Abu Yahya al Libi, a Libyan al-Qaeda leader who had just died in an American drone attack, and was also timed to coincide with the imminent arrival of a U.S. diplomat.[43][44] There were no injuries, but the group left behind leaflets promising more attacks against the U.S.[45]
British ambassador to Libya Dominic Asquith survived an assassination attempt in Benghazi on June 10. Two British protection officers were injured in the attack when their convoy was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade 300 yards from their consulate office.[46] The British Foreign Office withdrew all consular staff from Benghazi in late June.[47][48][49]
On June 18, 2012, the Tunisian consulate in Benghazi was stormed by individuals affiliated with Ansar Al-Sharia Libya, allegedly because of "attacks by Tunisian artists against Islam."[26]:31
On the day of the attack:
Al Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahiri declared that al Libi's death still needed to be avenged.[50]
In Egypt, 2000 Salafist activists protested against the film Innocence of Muslims at 5pm EET (11am EDT) at the US embassy in Cairo.[51]
President Obama was attending a 9/11 ceremony in the morning, and in the afternoon he visited with wounded veterans at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for two-and-a-half hours about the time the Benghazi attack began.[52]
Two consulate security guards spotted a man in a Libyan police uniform taking pictures of the consulate with his cell phone from a nearby building that was under construction. The security guards briefly detained the man before releasing him. He drove away in a police car and a complaint was made to the Libyan police station. Sean Smith noticed this surveillance, posting on the internet "assuming we don't die tonight. We saw one of our 'police' that guard the compound taking pictures."[26]:34

After the attack, a Benghazi security official and a battalion commander had met with U.S. diplomats three days before the attack and had warned the Americans about deteriorating security in the area. The official told CNN that the diplomats had been advised, "The situation is frightening, it scares us."[53]

On September 14, CNN correspondent Arwa Damon found Ambassador Stevens' diary at the unsecured site of the attack. In it, Stevens expressed his concern about the growing al-Qaeda presence in the area and his worry about being on an al-Qaeda hit list. The U.S. State Department later accused CNN of violating privacy and breaking its promise to Stevens' family that it would not report on the diary.(emphasis mine)

This happened a few hours before the attack in Benghazi (indeed it was still going on). What time would there be to learn from it, and what could they learn? And without the considerable benefit of hindsight that we have now - be realistic.

Here's a little secret for you: in matters of security, you have to think ahead.

rickyp wrote:fate

Here's a little secret for you: in matters of security, you have to think ahead.

The CIA did in Ben Ghazi.
They were well protected in their compound, as well as the 3 States employees who went to the CIA compound.
The Consulate wasn't because it really wasn't supposed to be in use...it was a front.
Perhaps someone will ask why the Ambassador thought he could safely conduct business in the embassey, especially as he had only two staffers in Ben Ghazi with him, and what advice he was given by the CIA station on the matter...
But I doubt that question will ever be asked because its more important to know why Rice mangled her talking points...

U.S. Captures Benghazi Attack Suspect

rickyp wrote:

U.S. Captures Benghazi Attack Suspect

Hmmm

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/20 ... 14176.html

danivon wrote:I see that Allen West, who five months ago was calling for Abu Khattala to be captured because he was the ringleader, is now claiming that the capture is a stunt and the man is just a fall guy.

That's some about turn.

He is an enemy combatant, not a criminal.

The New York Times reported today that, Ahmed Abu Khattala, a suspected attacker of the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, “told other Libyans” that the attack was instigated by the infamous anti-Islam video, Innocence of Muslims, originally posted on YouTube. If true, this would confirm the administration’s early suspicions that the attack occurred in response to the video — a suspicion that was initially detailed in a CIA memo.
What he did in the period just before the attack has remained unclear. But Mr. Abu Khattala told other Libyans in private conversations during the night of the attack that he was moved to attack the diplomatic mission to take revenge for an insult to Islam in an American-made online video.
An earlier demonstration venting anger over the video outside the American Embassy in Cairo had culminated in a breach of its walls, and it dominated Arab news coverage. Mr. Abu Khattala told both fellow Islamist fighters and others that the attack in Benghazi was retaliation for the same insulting video, according to people who heard him.

Doctor Fate wrote:Some think it is a "stunt" because of the amazing timing. It's not like we didn't know where the guy was--he had been interviewed by CNN, Fox, and the NYT.

Doctor Fate wrote:He is an enemy combatant, not a criminal. He should be treated accordingly. Miranda does not apply to acts of war.