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Post 27 Aug 2015, 11:07 am

rickyp wrote:Fate
Meanwhile, it just gets better and better for Hillary, right?


The article offers nothing but speculation.
example so the true number of her “unclassified” emails that were actually classified may be in the thousands (Or it could be zero. )

All of this from a supposed expert on security who lost his job because he sent "Dick pics" through email.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tions.html


We know it wasn't zero. The IG's have told us that. And, I would venture to say so has Hillary--by implication. Her story would not have shifted so much if it was plausible.

She used a personal email account because it would be easier to carry just one device. But it turned out that she frequently used two.

The vast majority of her work emails went to government employees at government addresses, and thus “were captured and preserved immediately on the system at the State Department.” But the State Department did not automatically archive emails while Clinton was Secretary of State, and only a small percentage of emails were officially preserved.

She turned over more than 55,000 printed pages of emails. But only after the State Department demanded that she do so. And she destroyed 30,000 emails.

She fully complied with the federal records laws by preserving her e-mails after she left office. But State Department regulations require employees separating from service to return all official records in their possession when they leave office. Clinton waited two years before returning any official emails.

Other Secretaries of State used a private email account. But the only two who served when email was ubiquitous were Condollezza Rice and Colin Powell. Rice didn’t used email. Powell occasionally used a personal e-mail account, but did not conduct State Department business exclusively on a private server. In any event, State Department policy at the time did not plainly foreclose such occasional use.

There was “no classified material” in Clinton’s emails. But inspector generals for the State Department and the intelligence community found that out of the 40 emails they initially reviewed, at least four contained classified information and two were “top secret.” Since then, hundreds of additional Clinton emails with classified information have been identified.

The State Department permitted what Clinton did. But the State Department Foreign Affairs Manual permitted occasional private e-mail use only under certain carefully delineated conditions designed to guard against compromise of sensitive government information. The State Department did not permit Clinton to email exclusively on a private server. As Judge Emett Sullivan recently said, “we wouldn’t be here [in court] today if [Clinton] had followed government policy.”

None of the information contained in Clinton’s emails was classified at the time the emails were sent. But the State Department and Intelligence Community inspector generals have flatly rejected this claim.

Okay, but the emails weren’t marked classified when sent. But Reuters has reported that at least 30 email threads from the documents released to date contain information provided in confidence to U.S. officials by foreign-government counterparts. These documents were “born classified.” Any public official would have known that information from foreign governments about the world’s hot-spots is classified and, in any event, not ripe for dissemination on a homebrewed server.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... il-scandal

Glenn Kessler gave her two Pinocchios, which was quite generous:

Clinton’s very careful and legalistic phrasing raises suspicions. She refers to “classified material,” which could be code for documents, leaving open the possibility of “classified information” having been received. She also says she “did not receive any material that was marked or designated classified,” which of course leaves open the possibility of receiving classified information that was not correctly marked.

The Miliband e-mail is now labeled by the State Department to contain classified information, unfit for public disclosure. That holds true for other information that Clinton and her aides routinely exchanged over an unsecure network. The question thus turns on whether Clinton should have at the time recognized that this information could be deemed as classified and should have taken better steps to protect it.

At The Fact Checker, we judge statements through the perspective of an ordinary citizen. The classification rules are complex but, legal technicalities aside, the question is whether classified information was exchanged over her private e-mail system. Never mind the IG’s concerns. According to the State Department redactions of the released e-mails, the answer is yes. Clinton earns Two Pinocchios for excessively technical wordsmithing.


And then there's this poll:

You get 394 responses just by combining the top three results of “Liar, Dishonest and Untrustworthy.” You pretty much have to add up all of the other words on the list to catch up with those three. And this isn’t just a list of responses by Republicans… that’s everyone. What’s truly amazing is that this is clearly the prevailing American perception at this point and yet, Clinton is still the Democrat frontrunner. I’m not sure if that says more about her or the party.


Can she win if the first word that pops into people's minds about her is "liar?"

Maybe, but that would be a very sad statement about the US.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 12:32 pm

fate
Can she win if the first word that pops into people's minds about her is "liar?"
Maybe, but that would be a very sad statement about the US


Doesn't seem to hurt her too much in head to head polling...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... _race.html


Maybe because people have become inured to hearing stuff about Hilary that ends up going no where...

Call it Ben Ghazi fatigue.
This issue follows the same cycle that every Hilary and Obama scandal has.... Lots of sound and fury eventually ending with the sound of a wet fart.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 1:00 pm

rickyp wrote:fate
Can she win if the first word that pops into people's minds about her is "liar?"
Maybe, but that would be a very sad statement about the US


Doesn't seem to hurt her too much in head to head polling...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... _race.html


Maybe because people have become inured to hearing stuff about Hilary that ends up going no where...

Call it Ben Ghazi fatigue.
This issue follows the same cycle that every Hilary and Obama scandal has.... Lots of sound and fury eventually ending with the sound of a wet fart.


Even though the likelihood is she violated Federal law? Good luck with that. Let me know how much money you want to lose wagering on Hills becoming President.

Given the name recognition factors, etc., she should be well ahead of Cruz, Rubio, etc. The only two who are on her level are Trump and Bush.

The good news is two-fold for conservatives: 1) time is on our side because the truth is on our side; 2) the more people hear Hillary, the less they like her. It happened in 2008 and it's happening again.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 1:46 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:Can she win if the first word that pops into people's minds about her is "liar?"

Maybe, but that would be a very sad statement about the US.
Or it would speak to the quality of her opposition.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 2:01 pm

fate
Even though the likelihood is she violated Federal law?


It isn't the first time that she's been accused of criminal behavior. I think its like the 23rd time.
Nor Obama. And he's been accused of everything including non-citizenship... (Some where on this board you claimed that Sanders would never win because the US would never elect a socialist. I'll remind you that you've called Obama a socialist hundreds of times..)


It never amounts to anything. And if this doesn't amount to anything either, or very little, then what?
The notion that this will suddenly disqualify Clinton is nothing more than wishful thinking of the sort that drug out the pointless Ben Ghazi hearings.
It feed the base of the Republican party watching and no one else is really paying much attention.
Opinion leaders know its a non-issue.

When this blows over, the Republicans will still have Trump and the crew trying to pander to the right wing of the republican party ... Pissing off women and Latino voters and kissing off black voters. If you recall, the GOP brain trust concluded that outreach to Latinos and women was crucial if Republicans were going to secure the White House.
Good luck with all that.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 2:13 pm

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:Can she win if the first word that pops into people's minds about her is "liar?"

Maybe, but that would be a very sad statement about the US.
Or it would speak to the quality of her opposition.


Her opposition is fine. In fact, if nominated, she will lose.

However, I think there's more chance of her getting indicted than nominated. I'd go 55/45.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 2:26 pm

rickyp wrote:fate
Even though the likelihood is she violated Federal law?


It isn't the first time that she's been accused of criminal behavior. I think its like the 23rd time.


The difference is this: her only defense this time is she was too stupid or too lazy to do the right thing. She can't expect anyone to believe she didn't know better: she's supposed to be brilliant and she was the Secretary of State, who is supposed to understand these things.

What is funny, but understandable, is that you don't even pretend to think she's telling the truth about the email situation. What you don't understand is that if she told the truth she would be confessing to a crime. That's what the FBI is investigating.

Nor Obama. And he's been accused of everything including non-citizenship... (Some where on this board you claimed that Sanders would never win because the US would never elect a socialist. I'll remind you that you've called Obama a socialist hundreds of times..)


Sideshow. Fireworks. Nice try.

It never amounts to anything. And if this doesn't amount to anything either, or very little, then what?
The notion that this will suddenly disqualify Clinton is nothing more than wishful thinking of the sort that drug out the pointless Ben Ghazi hearings.


I'll be delighted. She will be the most corrupt politician to ever run in a time when corrupt politicians are loathed. Go Hillary!

Oh, and we do have this to look forward to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CJBuUwd0Os

Of course, Hillary will have to explain her lack of securing the consulate over and over again. Plus, she'll look incompetent again and again.

It feed the base of the Republican party watching and no one else is really paying much attention.
Opinion leaders know its a non-issue.


Uh-huh. You do know . . . 24 MILLION Americans watched the first debate, right? 24 million??? I believe that was 4x the number of any GOP debate before this. Good luck getting that many to watch the DNC debacle.

When this blows over, the Republicans will still have Trump and the crew trying to pander to the right wing of the republican party ... Pissing off women and Latino voters and kissing off black voters.


Bet me. I'll give you 2:1 Trump will not be the nominee.

If you recall, the GOP brain trust concluded that outreach to Latinos and women was crucial if Republicans were going to secure the White House.
Good luck with all that.


Cruz/Fiorina.

Problem solved.

You're welcome.
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Post 27 Aug 2015, 8:08 pm

I don't know, which is worse have some scandal about securing email...or have the white supremacist crowd support you?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-white-supremacists_55dce43ee4b08cd3359dc41a?kvcommref=mostpopular
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 5:07 am

Doctor Fate wrote:Cruz/Fiorina.

Problem solved.

You're welcome.
if you can arrange that ticket, I am sure the DNC would be grateful. Surely Rubio would be a more electable Hispanic Republican. Or Bush III.

And Fiorina has her own issues, such as setting up a couple of non-profits without bothering to register them properly. And hammering HP.
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 5:59 am

Rickyp
When this blows over, the Republicans will still have Trump and the crew trying to pander to the right wing of the republican party ... Pissing off women and Latino voters and kissing off black voters
.

Fate
Bet me. I'll give you 2:1 Trump will not be the nominee


I don't think he will be eitehr. But what republican nominee has gone out of their way to repudiate any of the BS spewing from Trump. Mostly its just pale echos by low energy types...
The campaign is revealing the heart of the Republican party and its not attracting the growing demographics of latinos, asians and blacks. And its confirming to women that their concerns and needs are held in little regard.

Rubio?
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/27/marco_r ... bartender/

If the failed policies that helped create income and wealth inequality are all he has to offer as a solution.... he's in trouble. (But he won't get the nomination either.)
In the end income and wealth inequality will be the most important issue in the election. Sideshows like immigration are merely pandering to the old white men to get the nomination.
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 7:14 am

freeman3 wrote:I don't know, which is worse have some scandal about securing email...or have the white supremacist crowd support you?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-white-supremacists_55dce43ee4b08cd3359dc41a?kvcommref=mostpopular


Yes, when I need guilt-by-association stuff, you're my go-to.
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 7:16 am

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:Cruz/Fiorina.

Problem solved.

You're welcome.
if you can arrange that ticket, I am sure the DNC would be grateful. Surely Rubio would be a more electable Hispanic Republican. Or Bush III.

And Fiorina has her own issues, such as setting up a couple of non-profits without bothering to register them properly. And hammering HP.


Nah, Democrats would hate it. They're all about identity politics. They would have to hire all-new writers and publicity companies. Without the "war on women" rhetoric and "racism" nonsense, all they have left is buying votes.
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 7:36 am

It's not guilt by association. Nice try. Guilt by association here would be if Trump was assumed to have the same views as white supremacist groups merely by knowing them (sort of like ascribing views to Obama because he associated with radicals in Chicago...hmm, I think you might be more of a go to guy on that...)That's not the issue here. The problem is having views on immigration that white supremacist groups would like--that should give one pause...
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 7:38 am

Yes, this is a pretty picture and it's all about Hillary.

Image
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Post 28 Aug 2015, 7:49 am

freeman3 wrote:It's not guilt by association. Nice try. Guilt by association here would be if Trump was assumed to have the same views as white supremacist groups merely by knowing them (sort of like ascribing views to Obama because he associated with radicals in Chicago..


I apologize. You're quite right.

The stupidity you posted doesn't even rise to the level of "guilt by association."

.hmm, I think you might be more of a go to guy on that...)That's not the issue here. The problem is having views on immigration that white supremacist groups would like--that should give one pause...


Actually, you're doing two things here.

1. Distraction. Hillary is an abominable candidate, so you have to desperately try to change the subject. That's why she's out there comparing Republicans to terrorists.

2. Stretching reality beyond credulity. From your link:

David Duke, a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux klan and perhaps the most famous face of the American white supremacy movement, said that while Trump was “untrustworthy” he was also “the best of the lot” running on the GOP side.

“Immigration is an existential threat for our people in every way,” Duke said during his radio show on Aug. 18.


So, no, Duke doesn't "like" Trump's position. He does say, Trump is “the best of the lot.” However, he goes on to say that immigration itself is "an existential threat to our people." Trump isn't talking about ending immigration. He wants to enforce the laws on the books. That's not what Duke wants--he wants to end immigration period.

So, good job at throwing a bunch of dirt in the air, pulling hair, and altogether arguing like a 5 year-old. Now, if you'd actually like to debate substance, feel free.