Join In On The Action "Register Here" To View The Forums

Already a Member Login Here

Board index Forum Index
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 27 Feb 2012, 6:58 am

Ah the public record and what it can do to cast light on the true nature of a politiician. It appears Santorum not only creates his own facts, but he is able to evolve those facts over time...

The week before last on Face the Nation, Rick Santorum was asked whether, in recent remarks, he’s been deliberately suggesting that President Obama “looks down on disabled people.” Santorum replied: “Well, the President supported partial-birth abortion, and partial-birth abortion is a procedure used almost exclusively to kill children late in pregnancy when they’ve been found out to be disabled.”
That’s odd. Because for nine years, while he was promoting the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act in the U.S. Senate, Santorum said exactly the opposite. He said partial-birth abortion was used almost exclusively to kill children who weren’t disabled. And he said anyone who implied otherwise was a liar. ..........
That didn’t stop Santorum from converting Fitzsimmons’ confession into numbers. In March 1997, Santorum declared on the Senate floor that Fitzsimmons “called up the doctors of the clinics, and the doctors said, ‘No. We perform this fairly routinely,’ not just on third trimester babies, and some are, but the vast majority — 95% is my guess, or even more — are on healthy mothers with healthy babies in the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy. Those are the facts.”
Facts? These weren’t facts. These were Santorum’s misquotations and guesses. Two weeks later, Santorum told his colleagues that “at least 90% of [partial-birth abortions], according to their industry, are healthy babies and healthy mothers.” By May 1997, Santorum was claiming that the procedure was used on “healthy babies … in almost all cases.”

source:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... -abortion/

Don't you wish the media paid careful attention to the quality of information used in public debate, while it was happening, particularly on the floor of Congress? And don't you wish that every politiican had to sit down and face their public declarations directly? Wouldn't it change the way nations are governed?
At the very least it would keep dangerous kooks like Santorum from acceptance as a mainstream candidate.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 4991
Joined: 08 Jun 2000, 10:26 am

Post 27 Feb 2012, 8:58 am

some more facts per wikipedia:

Though the procedure has had a low rate of use, representing 0.17% (2,232 of 1,313,000) of all abortions in the United States in the year 2000, according to voluntary responses to an Alan Guttmacher Institute survey,[2] it has developed into a focal point of the abortion debate. In the United States, intact dilation and extraction was made illegal in most circumstances by the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.
User avatar
Truck Series Driver (Pro II)
 
Posts: 897
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 1:02 pm

Post 13 Mar 2012, 10:30 pm

Santorum swept the South tonight, the race goes on.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 9:54 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 9:31 am

Neal Anderth wrote:Santorum swept the South tonight, the race goes on.

They were both proportional states and Romney still has more delegates then the other 3 combined.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 16006
Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 11:39 am

ARJ, sure, but if the Paulistas hacking in some states erodes delegate count, who's likely to be the biggest loser?

The main effect has been to pretty much set the limit on Gingrich's ambitions. He's won two of the four States he had a stronger base in. Santorum is now the clear rival to Romney, and could easily see a boost as a result. Still, if he doesn't win Pa, he's got a big problem.
User avatar
Emissary
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: 12 Jun 2006, 2:01 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 11:58 am

The game now is presumably to try and deny Romney an outright majority rather than to win.

Wake me when they get to Tampa...
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 9:54 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 4:09 pm

danivon wrote:ARJ, sure, but if the Paulistas hacking in some states erodes delegate count, who's likely to be the biggest loser?

Yes, because those delegates are still required to vote for Romney on the first round. Romney has 496 delegates so far. The other three combine have 444.


danivon wrote:The main effect has been to pretty much set the limit on Gingrich's ambitions. He's won two of the four States he had a stronger base in. Santorum is now the clear rival to Romney, and could easily see a boost as a result


The problem for Santorum is that most of the races he will do well in are over. Up coming are California, New York and Pennsylvania which are something like 1, 3, & 4 in the number of delegates allocated. Romney should do well in those states.

Still, if he doesn't win Pa, he's got a big problem.[/quote]

I agree with this. There was a recent press conference (yesterday I think) where the Commonwealth's incumbent Republicans named who they supported. Pretty much they went for Romney across the board.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 16006
Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 4:18 pm

Archduke Russell John wrote:
danivon wrote:ARJ, sure, but if the Paulistas hacking in some states erodes delegate count, who's likely to be the biggest loser?

Yes, because those delegates are still required to vote for Romney on the first round. Romney has 496 delegates so far. The other three combine have 444.
Really? I though the whole point of the Paul hacks was to pick up the delegates as they go through caucuses, so that while the indications from initial straw polls were going one way, Paul was getting more out the other end.

There are also uncommited delegates, and it's not actually unprecedented for delegates to vote a different way when they get there (what is the punishment if they do?)

But yes, Romney has just over 50% of the delegates so far. He's been at that level for some time now.

The problem for Santorum is that most of the races he will do well in are over. Up coming are California, New York and Pennsylvania which are something like 1, 3, & 4 in the number of delegates allocated. Romney should do well in those states.
Texas is still to come number 2), which is pretty big. Looking at the vote distribution, Kentucky looks good for Santorum as well. I think the bigger difference is that Cali is winner-take-all while Texas is proportional.

Still, if he doesn't win Pa, he's got a big problem.


I agree with this. There was a recent press conference (yesterday I think) where the Commonwealth's incumbent Republicans named who they supported. Pretty much they went for Romney across the board.
Yeah, well, that may work well, depending on whether the grass-roots voters are minded to follow the lead of establishment guys.

And if Gingrich finally gets the hint and stands down, there's more doubt.

I still think Romney will get there, but it's not necessarily going to be pretty.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 9:54 am

Post 14 Mar 2012, 4:28 pm

danivon wrote:Really? I though the whole point of the Paul hacks was to pick up the delegates as they go through caucuses, so that while the indications from initial straw polls were going one way, Paul was getting more out the other end.


They are still required to vote for whom they are committed to in the first round. The Paulista plan only works if nobody has a majority after the first round of voting, in otherwords a brokered convention. There is no way there is going to be a brokered convention.

danivon wrote:There are also uncommited delegates, and it's not actually unprecedented for delegates to vote a different way when they get there (what is the punishment if they do?)


The number of uncommitted delegates in the Republican party is miniscule. About 5%. As for unfaithful delegates, the punishment is the end of your political career. Most people going to state and national conventions, that is a big threat.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 15 Mar 2012, 7:05 am

arch
The problem for Santorum is that most of the races he will do well in are over. Up coming are California, New York and Pennsylvania which are something like 1, 3, & 4 in the number of delegates allocated. Romney should do well in those states.
Still, if he doesn't win Pa, he's got a big problem


Santorum has double digit leads in polling in Pennsylvania... I think you can count that one safely for Santorum

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -1594.html

Arch, at the conventions are delegates handing in ballots to their chair in an anonymous fashion? A ballot box? Or do they convey their votes to the chair verbally?
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 9:54 am

Post 15 Mar 2012, 8:34 am

rickyp wrote:Santorum has double digit leads in polling in Pennsylvania... I think you can count that one safely for Santorum


Uh dude, you don't need to provide a link to the polling info on my home state :wink:

However, we are over a month away from the election. What was Santorum's lead in Ohio at that point. Santorum was +18 on Febraury 15th. On top of that, if you look at the link you provided, it appears as if Rickyboy is trending down. +29 in Feburary to +14 now.

Campaigning really hasn't started here yet. There are no ad on tv or radio and there has been no lit mailings yet either.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 15 Mar 2012, 8:55 am

arch
Campaigning really hasn't started here yet. There are no ad on tv or radio and there has been no lit mailings yet either.


On the other hand, Santorum has some recent perceived momentum, and the anybody by Mitt crowd could abandon Gingrich in favour of Rick... Plus all of Romneys spending doesn't seem to translate into proportionate gains.... It could be that even in states where there hasn't been campaign advertising, its all been seen before...
Still Romney will take California and New York ....
Do you know the answer to how ballots are submitted at conventions? Just wondering how "committed delegates" are enforced at convention.
User avatar
Ambassador
 
Posts: 16006
Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 6:29 am

Post 15 Mar 2012, 10:37 am

Yeah, but we all know that Romney will have far more money to swamp the airwaves with in the week before the primary, and that is how he turned Florida, Michigan, Ohio...

His spending is inefficient, but he only really need to top the poll.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3239
Joined: 29 Jan 2003, 9:54 am

Post 15 Mar 2012, 6:37 pm

rickyp wrote:Do you know the answer to how ballots are submitted at conventions? Just wondering how "committed delegates" are enforced at convention.


I don't personally know but I am trying to find someone who has been to the national convention to ask. I had a party meeting tonight but the person I thought might know was not there. However, as soon as I find out, I will let you know.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 16 Mar 2012, 7:55 am

Here's an interesting Gallup poll that points out that the primary process hasn't done any favours for any of the Candidates.
Even amongst republicans enthusiasm is way down..... Romney's levels of enthusiasm today are exactly where they were at this time in his losing run against McCain. McCains enthusiasm levels were much higher. And he lost.

today 19% of republicans would either vote for Obama over Mitt (8%) or stay home 11%
Not good news.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/153272/Romne ... sion=print