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- Archduke Russell John
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03 Dec 2011, 2:18 pm
Sassenach wrote:I don't agree. Having just re-read it to see if there was something I missed, I can say that all I see is criticism of the Republican candidates and the US media that builds them up.
It is not the criticism that is the problem but the word choice and tone of the article that is the problem. Check out
this commentary by Michael Smerconish making the same critiicism of the Republican campaign but doing so in a much more respectful fashion.
Sassenach wrote:Face it Russ, this is a very poor field of candidates. I can't remember a weaker field for either party since I've been following US politics.
I disagree with you here as well. The 2004 Democratic also had Jesse Jackson, Wesley Clark, Dennis Kucinich and Joe Lieberman in it. And let's not forget Carol Mosley-Braun and Bob Graham both of whom declared but dropped out before the primaries started. Each one of these candidates could be comparable to a current Republican one.
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- rickyp
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03 Dec 2011, 4:23 pm
steve
No President has ever been re-elected with approval numbers as low as Obama has a year out.
Thats true. But is this a rule that can't be broken or is it another first for the man from illinois?
And, this a first that is really only possible because his potential competitors are all seemingly uninspiring to the electorate. Why, when no name republican is considered he loses. But when the specific candidate is actually named...
And by the way, since part of the discussion about the republican nominations process is "who can beat Obama". Not only on this forum but within the media and presumably withion the party...
The head to head polls are more than relevant. And what they say, that coincides with the German journalism, is that the field offered is thin on personal apppeal and also, that the policy platforms hold little appeal.
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- Doctor Fate
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03 Dec 2011, 4:35 pm
Meh.
Poll this week showing Gingrich ahead nationally.
Gingrich?
Because everyone loves Barack!
Gingrich?
Put your money where your ignorance is.
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- Guapo
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07 Dec 2011, 8:52 am
No predictions yet?
I'll make one: Ron Paul wins Iowa, places second in New Hampshire to Romney in a close margin.
At least ONE of you "knows it all" characters should be confident enough to make some predictions.
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- Doctor Fate
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07 Dec 2011, 9:17 am
One interesting thing: I've heard that Gingrich and Huntsman are going to debate head to head on the 12th. If anyone watches it, it ought to be revealing about Huntsman. Again, his persona is what has hurt him more than his positions.
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- Archduke Russell John
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07 Dec 2011, 9:48 am
I think it is too early to make predictions about Iowa.
This article from Monday's De Moines Register discusses how up in the air the race is right now. I think the key part of the article is this factoid
More than 70 percent of likely caucusgoers are still up for grabs. Eleven percent aren’t yet ready to name a first choice, and 60 percent say they could be persuaded to support another candidate.
Considering how nasty the ad war is about to get up there, if Paul's ad linked to above is any indication, I think there is a real possibility that a Gephardt-Dean result happens to Gingrinch, Paul and Romney.
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- Doctor Fate
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07 Dec 2011, 10:13 am
Archduke Russell John wrote:I think it is too early to make predictions about Iowa.
This article from Monday's De Moines Register discusses how up in the air the race is right now. I think the key part of the article is this factoid
More than 70 percent of likely caucusgoers are still up for grabs. Eleven percent aren’t yet ready to name a first choice, and 60 percent say they could be persuaded to support another candidate.
Considering how nasty the ad war is about to get up there, if Paul's ad linked to above is any indication, I think there is a real possibility that a Gephardt-Dean result happens to Gingrinch, Paul and Romney.
Have to agree. I think anything can happen, including a comeback by Bachmann or an upset from Santorum. I think the "Hawkeye Caucii" (as King Dittohead calls it) is unpredictable. It's not "show up and vote." Instead, one must show up, stand here for hours, etc., in order to count.
Motivation matters. It's why Ron Paul could also win Iowa. Pat Buchanan won it, if memory serves.
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- Doctor Fate
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08 Dec 2011, 8:32 am
This is funny. I just read a much more thorough summary of what I've been trying to say about Huntsman. I get why Russ is all worked up over him. I hope
this will explain why I have not been.
And yet — as Will noted from the outset — there is Huntsman’s bizarre campaign positioning, which Ross Douthat recently described well:
Huntsman’s campaign was always destined to be hobbled by the two years he spent as President Obama’s ambassador to China. But he compounded the handicap by introducing himself to the Republican electorate with a series of symbolic jabs at the party’s base.
He picked high-profile fights on two hot-button issues — evolution and global warming — that were completely irrelevant to his candidacy’s rationale. He let his campaign manager define his candidacy as a fight to save the Republican Party from a “bunch of cranks.” And he embraced his identity as the media’s favorite Republican by letting the liberal journalist Jacob Weisberg write a fawning profile for Vogue.
This was political malpractice at its worst. Voters don’t necessarily need to like a candidate to vote for him, but they need to think that he likes them.
This is a large part of why the arguments for Huntsman are generally met with derision from the grassroots. (Note: I don’t generally assume blog commenters to be representative of any larger population, but Huntsman’s standing in most polls suggest they may be representative here.)
While I agree with Douthat about the gross political malpractice of the Huntsman campaign, I also think there was a not-completely-insane theory behind it. The theory is the ideal GOP candidate would be a solid conservative who appeals to the mushy middle. The successful model here would be Reagan, the seemingly non-threatening, happy warrior who could disarm Carter with a chuckle while advocating massive tax cuts and eliminating cabinet departments.
It is Team Huntsman’s execution of this theory that is jaw-droppingly bad. Huntsman has all the condescension and snark of Newt Gingrich, but almost always directed at the wrong targets. Indeed, Huntsman’s campaign has tended to embrace the targets Gingrich has attacked all the way to his current front-running status (This is what happens when you hire Jon Weaver). Consequently, Huntsman, who is as articulate as Romney or Gingrich, gives debate performances that manage to be as off-putting as those of Rick Perry at his lowest.
Huntsman is the Bizarro candidate, a Frankenstein monster seemingly assembled out of the worst features of his major rivals. If you squint hard enough, what he is doing is recognizable as a political campaign, just not one you would expect to see on this planet. If the GOP grassroots were willing to go along with his charade, he might get somewhere — but he hasn’t managed that feat, and time is running out.
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- Archduke Russell John
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08 Dec 2011, 9:55 am
I understand all this Steve. I agree that his campaign has been a series of political missteps. However, Erick Erickson made a comment that I think has a shadow of truth. The Huntsman Campaign expected Romney to swing hard right like it did in 2008. If he did that, it would leave the spot for the moderate candidate open which Huntsman would fill.
Unfortunately, Romney didn't swing hard right but went moderate. This made Huntsman look to be to the left of Romney. Once they realized this problem, I think Huntsman tried to get people to look at his actual conservative record figuring this would get the Republican base to like him a little more. He attempted this by trying to create a media sound bite in the debates with his humorous quips. The problem is this backfired because he just isn't funny. He is the straight man that sets up the funny guy. Basically, he is an Abbott to a Costello.
But given all that, I don't care. His policies and positions agree with mine for the most part. He has a proven history of sticking to those positions. He is smart and educated. He forms well thought answers to questions and recognizes nuance in his answers. He is also the only candidated to put forth serious, well thought, and complete plans on multitude of issuesHe can draw in moderates and conservative democrats.
Why wouldn't a Republican vote for this guy. Who cares if he is stiff.
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- Ray Jay
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08 Dec 2011, 10:17 am
I wonder if Huntsman will get a 2nd look if Gingrich self destructs (which I'm guessing is 50/50). On economic issues (and in particular government spending), I think Huntsman is more conservative than Romney.
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- Archduke Russell John
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08 Dec 2011, 1:03 pm
Here is an interview Huntsman did on Tuesday with Sean Hannity. I thought it was pretty good.
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- Doctor Fate
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08 Dec 2011, 1:28 pm
Ray Jay wrote:I wonder if Huntsman will get a 2nd look if Gingrich self destructs (which I'm guessing is 50/50). On economic issues (and in particular government spending), I think Huntsman is more conservative than Romney.
On the former, I think you are right. On the latter, I am undecided, but the chaos of his strategy has been his major problem.
Listening to the interview now. Trump is a blowhard, but I don't think being on his bad side is a smart move. Huntsman is just starting. He's less interesting to listen to than Romney. That's not easy to pull off. Still listening and I'm sure we will get to substance.
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- Sassenach
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08 Dec 2011, 3:12 pm
Ok, here's a genuine question guys. It seems from every poll I've seen that Romney has a ceiling on his primary support of about 20% or so, which makes him the frontrunner but clearly indicates that there's a lack of enthusiasm for him because despite almost all his rivals imploding he's still polling the same numbers. With this in mind, do you think that Hunstman's strategy may ultimately prove to be a very good one ? After all, if everybody else goes into meltdown (and it seems there's only Newt and Ron Paul left from the original field) he could easily pick up a big chunk of the anyone but Mitt vote pretty much by default just by positioning himself slightly to the right of Romney. At this point he'd be in a great spot because he wouldn't be perceived as having had to compromise too greatly with the far right of the party, making him a much stronger candidate to face Obama.
Granted, that's a whole helluva lot of assumptions to make for a guy polling in single figures, but at the same time it does seem like most of the candidates are dropping like flies right now.
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- rickyp
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09 Dec 2011, 5:52 am
huntsman's polling in the teens in new hampshire ad thats the key for himIi think. Pandering to Trump demonstrates the insipid nature of these candidates. The ass has already said if the republicans don't nominate the right candidate he'll consider an independent run. apparently he doesn't remember his last poll numbers, or understand that village idiots often draw crows to listen to the crowing...
and apparently thats also lost on the pack of republican candidates attempting to curry favour with the Donald and his hair.
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- Doctor Fate
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09 Dec 2011, 8:41 am
Sassenach wrote:Ok, here's a genuine question guys. It seems from every poll I've seen that Romney has a ceiling on his primary support of about 20% or so, which makes him the frontrunner . . .
Well, no, Gingrich has been above him for about a week or so. Most national polls show him well above 30%.
. . .but clearly indicates that there's a lack of enthusiasm for him because despite almost all his rivals imploding he's still polling the same numbers. With this in mind, do you think that Hunstman's strategy may ultimately prove to be a very good one ?
No. His record might be better than anyone's (for the sake of argument), but his presentation has been terrible. I listened to him on Laura Ingraham's show and I just cannot see him setting the primary voters hearts alight. He sounds weaker than Romney, no matter how much better his record may be. Perception matters and he has, so far, utterly failed the perception test.
There is a way for Huntsman to win, but it involves Romney dropping out early and no one else getting in. I think if Romney drops, some mainstream candidate will step up.
rickyp wrote:huntsman's polling in the teens in new hampshire ad thats the key for himIi think. Pandering to Trump demonstrates the insipid nature of these candidates. The ass has already said if the republicans don't nominate the right candidate he'll consider an independent run. apparently he doesn't remember his last poll numbers, or understand that village idiots often draw crows to listen to the crowing...
and apparently thats also lost on the pack of republican candidates attempting to curry favour with the Donald and his hair.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but . . . liberals should try to inform themselves before making coneheaded comments like this. Even before this morning, several candidates had bowed out of the Trump Debate. Bachmann has said she won't, neither will Romney, Paul, or Huntsman. As far as I know, only Gingrich and Santorum agreed to appear.