freeman3 wrote:There is nothing inherently wrong in being a police officer, he is not oppressing his community by being a police officer. There is nothing wrong in his volunteering to help the whole community, not just his own race.

But, the protesters knew better than he did what it meant to be Black. How dare he claim to be Black? One of the protesters invites him to take off his uniform and join them.

But we are entitled to point out liberal programs helped out Ben Carson and he is an example of the efficacy of those programs. If he wants to turn his back on programs that helped him...well,we're going to remind him.

So, in 100 years, will those programs still be needed? 200?

"White privilege" is the code phrase for "never ending programs."

fate

"White privilege" is the code phrase for "never ending programs."

no its not.

White privilege (or white skin privilege) is a term for societal privileges that benefit white people in western countries beyond what is commonly experienced by the non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.[note 1] These privileges are unearned and are distributed based on values of the dominant group, which in the west is white people.[1] According to McIntosh and Lee, whites in a society considered culturally a part of the Western World enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience.[1] This leads to the controversy over whether or not White people should be able to enjoy these privileges. The term denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white persons may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice.[2] These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.[1] The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts.[3] The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

rickyp wrote:fate

"White privilege" is the code phrase for "never ending programs."

no its not.

White privilege (or white skin privilege) is a term for societal privileges that benefit white people in western countries beyond what is commonly experienced by the non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.[note 1] These privileges are unearned and are distributed based on values of the dominant group, which in the west is white people.[1] According to McIntosh and Lee, whites in a society considered culturally a part of the Western World enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience.[1] This leads to the controversy over whether or not White people should be able to enjoy these privileges. The term denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white persons may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice.[2] These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.[1] The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts.[3] The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

"Moron" is code for "rickyp."

No it's not! It's not a code.

I wonder, Fate, if you would have the courage to actually address the definition of white privilege I quoted. Do you agree that these things are real? Or do you deny them?

White privilege (or white skin privilege) is a term for societal privileges that benefit white people in western countries beyond what is commonly experienced by the non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.[note 1] These privileges are unearned and are distributed based on values of the dominant group, which in the west is white people.[1] According to McIntosh and Lee, whites in a society considered culturally a part of the Western World enjoy advantages that non-whites do not experience.[1]

This true Fate?

This leads to the controversy over whether or not White people should be able to enjoy these privileges. The term denotes both obvious and less obvious passive advantages that white persons may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice.[2] These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely.[1]

So when blacks are stopped more often then whites by cops, or when they have a hard time getting a cab .... it reflects this "white privilege" Agree Fate?

The effects can be seen in professional, educational, and personal contexts.[3] The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal.[4

]
This true Fate? Is your experience as a white man the norm?

That excerpt you posted Ricky is right on point. The unawareness of white privilege leads to many white men feeling that minorities are being favored by the government at the expense of them. I got a personal sense of that in high school. I had gone to a mostly white, suburban white school that I did not particularly like and transferred to a magnet school. Of course, I did not realize that the school was composed of mostly black and other minority students. I got along great there...and part of that was just being white. (On the other hand I witnessed minority students with mediocre grades and SAT scores getting into good schools like it was nothing, while I was sweating it out getting into UCLA...which annoyed me a bit--not that they got some preference but the preference was so huge and those students seemed to be nonchalantly unaware of it--...real life is full of complexity)

What causes this "white-skin privilege"? Is is something that the whites are doing? Is it something that the blacks are doing?

bbauska

What causes this "white-skin privilege"? Is is something that the whites are doing? Is it something that the blacks are doing?

Upon reflection ... "Guns germs and steel". and geography caused or created uneven human development. (Jared Diamonds landmark book was an answer to just about the same question you ask bbauska. Only asked by a resident of new guinea , trying to understand why the rest of the world was so far ahead.)
That moral evolution has greatly lagged physical developments is what has sustained privilege.Indeed, even the foundation of many peoples morality, religion, has been used to justify crimes like slavery ... Perhaps the communications revolution that is making the planet a neighborhood is now hastening the evolution and growth of man kinds morality?

It's a little bit easier to assess in former colonies. For example, the typical preference for lighter - skinned Hispanics in Latin America is a legacy of Spanish colonialism. Here, we have a culture originally constructed by descendants of white Europeans. As successive waves of immigrants (Irish, Eastern Europeans, Chinese etc) came each has been tagged with negative stereotypes. And the black community has been until fairly recently legally and even now de facto segregated.
Even now whites hold a significant amount of power and positions of status in this country. How that translates into white privilege is an enormously difficult subject because it is the sum total of all media, all culture, and all interactions between everyone in society. In Brown v Brown of Education one of the studies the court looked at (if I recall correctly) is one indicating that black kids at that time preferred white dolls. They were internalizing a societal message that being black was being inferior.
We have certainly come a long way. ( this article by a black columnist indicated that we still have a long way to go.http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/1198 ... ks-breathe) But it's pretty naive to think that a culture created by white Europeans with a continuing legacy of whites in positions of power and status would not also leave a legacy of white preference.
My fundamental political belief is fairness . I can be persuaded against a liberal policy if it is unfair. And affirmative action is on is face unfair. But I still don't think it is unfair for a school to give preference for a black kid from the inner-city who is at the top of his/her class over a white kid from the suburbs. Fairness involves looking at the totality of things and ignoring white privilege leads to unfairness .

As for the typical conservative rejoinder that it's been 50 years since the civil rights movement and these programs have gone on long enough, the recent events in Ferguson and New York indicate we still have a ways to go. I have seen DF complain about the behavior of white poor when he was a police officer. But poverty is another sign of lack of status. It is natural for human beings to look and react to signs of status . Age, race, gender, dress, speech patterns, socioeconomic status can all be indicators of status. And police officers are human beings just like the rest of us. And how each of us looks at race is based on the sum of everything we have encountered regarding race in our lives. Mark Cuban noted that if he noted if he saw a young black kid dressed in gang attire late at night he would cross the street. There is no direct proof that race played a direct role in Ferguson but the statements by the officer , I think, displayed fear based in part by race. The "broken windows" theory of policing in New York was a policy that led to stop and frisk policies and enforcement against minor crimes that had a hugely disproportionate impact on the black community. Was the immediate use of physical force related to race, I don't know, but it seems doubtful that a white guy in a suit would be treated the same way.

Nice post, Freeman. That is exactly where I was going with my comment. There are some Blacks who have treated other people wrongly and rightly, and some Whites doing the same thing, not to mention Asians, Pacific Islanders, et. al.

I attribute this to a class issue, not a race issue. I find it sad that so many see race as the divider.

Not all poor treat others badly or rightly also. Perhaps it is just and evil in the hearts of people issue.

Ben Carson (I'm summarizing but this is the gist)--it's not smart for gay people to buy wedding cakes from Christians who don't want to sell cakes for gay weddings because there might be poison in the cake.

I'm not sure if that statement is more offensive to Christians or gay people.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6547226?ir=Politics

I think his 15 minutes of fame should be over by now.

Having watched the speech, I say it was tongue in cheek response to being forced to do something that a baker wants to do.

Do you really think he was suggesting putting poison in a cake, or did you see the TIC response?

freeman3 wrote:Ben Carson (I'm summarizing but this is the gist)--it's not smart for gay people to buy wedding cakes from Christians who don't want to sell cakes for gay weddings because there might be poison in the cake.

I'm not sure if that statement is more offensive to Christians or gay people.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6547226?ir=Politics

I think his 15 minutes of fame should be over by now.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?324000-1/ben-carson-iowa-freedom-summit-news-conferences

The comment is at 8:40. Take a look, rather than depending on HuffPo...

I'm not really sure what you're expecting me to see here, Brad. I looked at the video. Is he supposed to be making a joke? Oh, that's so funny, gay couple buys forces Christian bakery to sell them a wedding cake and bakery sells them poisoned cake. Belly-splitter. I suspect that the "joke" just came out from not so nice feelings from Dr Carson towards gay people. You seem to have an innocuous interpretation of his remarks--what is your "spin" on them. Hmm, poison and Dr. Carlson's "culture of life" don't seem to go together well.

freeman3 wrote:I'm not really sure what you're expecting me to see here, Brad. I looked at the video. Is he supposed to be making a joke? Oh, that's so funny, gay couple buys forces Christian bakery to sell them a wedding cake and bakery sells them poisoned cake. Belly-splitter. I suspect that the "joke" just came out from not so nice feelings from Dr Carson towards gay people. You seem to have an innocuous interpretation of his remarks--what is your "spin" on them. Hmm, poison and Dr. Carlson's "culture of life" don't seem to go together well.

I am not defending him on this. I am saying that he is not espousing poisoning a gay couple. I think he was saying that it makes no sense to frustrate someone who is making your cake when there are others who will do the cake. I agree with that sentiment. Would I have someone fix me dinner who I had just offended? Certainly not!

Would you have someone you have offended make a meal for you?

BTW, It was a poor choice of words, but certainly words that I understand why they were said. It was his feelings that it makes no sense to have an offended person make a cake for you.

Let me ask you this, Freeman.

You are a lawyer, right? Would you do your utmost to defend a man who was a bigot, sexist, xenophobic bastard if you were forced to? What type of defense would this person expect to receive from you, if you were made to service his case?