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Except that Zimmerman lost him and started back to his car. It was only then that Martin took action to approach him. Therefore, I don't think you can safely assume as much as you may like

.

This contradicts the "ear witness". That is the running conversation that Martin was having on his mobile phone, and the parts of the confrontation oveheard .... She overheard Martin say "Why are you following me" only a few seconds after saying he'd lost the follower....
And probably isn't substantiated by the time/distance study that the prosecution presumably was able to put together with the two phone conversations....(Martins to his girl friend. Zimmerman to 911 operator). Theres' a reason the prosecution has charged him with 2nd degree. I'll bet, that as the trial progresses that this specific claim by Zimmerman will fall apart under prosecution scrutiny and reconciliation of the recorded conversations. Including that of other people phoning 911.
But we'll see. If I had to guess what really happened, when Martin turned to confront and argue with Zimmerman, Zimmerman pulled his gun and Martin then attacked him. Screaming help. And Zimmerman eventually fired to protect himself.
Now? Who, in that circumstance was standing their ground? And who in that circumstance was in fear of their life?
I'd say the answer to the first was Martin. And to the second, first Martin and then Zimmerman. And the reasponsibility for the first falls on Zimmerman alone.
If I'm right about that scenario Zimmerman recklessly endangered Martin, and himself.... His shooting of Martin, although in self defence, would be like a burglar shooting a home owner who had caught him breaking in and attacked him with a club.... true, he was defending himself but the defence was only required because of his criminal transgression.
If it plays out that way, the nature of the SYG law . will come into question even more than it has...

Ray Jay, agree. SOme good some bad. I considered the profession a few times. Took the LSAT twice. Was accepted into Law School. But didn't think it was going to be for me. Could not defend someone taht I thought was guilty or prosecute someone that I thought was innocent. But the law vs. justice doesn't seem to be working as it should (as if it ever did)

I'm disappointed to hear Martin's parent's lawyer call Zimmerman's apology insincere. How do they know?

Ray Jay wrote:I'm disappointed to hear Martin's parent's lawyer call Zimmerman's apology insincere. How do they know?

Well, the parents were in the room, and saw him making it. I guess it's a combination of his deportment at the time, that he didn't apologise to them by name, and that he hasn't made an apology until he comes to a bail hearing. Do they know 100%? No, but I suppose they are entitled to an opinion.

Pictures have been released that were allegedly take minutes after the police arrived on the scene that show Zimmerman with bloody cuts and gashes on his head. Anybody else see them?

Sure did. Looks self inficted. After all, his apology was insincere.

Two Martin related attacks made for retribution. Great...

If proven (I haven't seen anything about them and you've provided no links) they are reprehensible. But that does not alter anything one way or the other about the Zimmerman case or the wisdom of 'stand your ground' laws.

As requested...

http://www.examiner.com/article/white-toledo-man-78-beaten-by-youths-this-is-for-trayvon-martin?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/alton-hayes-trayvon-martin_n_1447295.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134340/Thats-justice-Trayvon-Angry-mob-beats-man-telling-stop-playing-basketball--sister-claims-racist-revenge-attack-gunned-teen.html

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20120412/ARTICLES/120419865/1002/news?p=1&tc=pg

The point is this:
You haven't heard anything because there is little put forth on the media about these incidents. Why? I remember the Zimmerman/martin issue being front page/lead story for days upon days.

What is going to happen if Zimmerman is acquitted? In my opinion we will be having LA riots all over again...

When you read that first link, was the added bit at the bottom there?

Update: Three days after we reported this, the Toledo Blade said Watts' story "might have been exaggerated" and police do not believe the incident was racially motivated.

According to the Toledo Blade:

Police say the robbery and assault of a 78-year-old Toledo man by six juveniles were not racially motivated and his account of what happened might have been exaggerated.

On Thursday, Toledo police Capt. Wes Bombrys said investigators determined the crime involving Dallas Watts was not racially motivated. On Friday, police Sgt. Phil Toney agreed, adding, "After the investigation, it was revealed that the story told by Mr. Watts was somewhat exaggerated, although he was assaulted and robbed. His story as to how everything happened appears to be a little bit exaggerated.

So, umm, in the spirit of waiting until the evidence is in, let's not be too hasty about the Toledo case.

I also saw something about your third link... here it is, from a Fox affilaite:

MOBILE, Ala. (WALA) - Mobile Police have released to FOX10 News new information about the case involving a man allegedly beaten over the weekend.

Cpl. Chris Levy said their investigation shows the incident stems from an ongoing dispute between the victim and a suspect yet to be named.

Police also wanted to release that no one has confirmed that this attack was “in retaliation for Trayvon Martin,” as one witness reported.

Again, it looks like there may be more going on here if it's part on an 'ongoing dispute'.

A god job that the media, commentators and your good self are not jumping on any story and leaping to conclusions, because that's exactly what you accuse those who wanted the Zimmerman case reopened of doing. Can anyone say "double standards"?

bbauska wrote:You haven't heard anything because there is little put forth on the media about these incidents. Why? I remember the Zimmerman/martin issue being front page/lead story for days upon days.

You forget that I live in a foreign country and we don't get the same level of US news that you do. Our news is full with the weird stuff happening over here at the motnt. we only heard about xzimmerman-trayvon weeks after the event when lots of people started to protest.

It's not exactly a conspiracy of silence, and oh - one of your links is from a UK newspaper site (one that I tend not to seek out), so umm, it seems there's some things out in the media.

I hope there are no riots if he's acquitted. A lot will depend on the way the trial proceeds. Remember in the Rodney King case there was clear video evidence of beatings and the acquittals flew in the face of that. The evidence is a lot less clear this time.

Archduke Russell John wrote:Pictures have been released that were allegedly take minutes after the police arrived on the scene that show Zimmerman with bloody cuts and gashes on his head. Anybody else see them?

I have seen one picture. Looks to me like drying blood from two small straight cuts. Not quite the same as being bashed against the pavement, and I could not see any 'gash'. If the cuts had been bad there would have been a dressing when he went to the police station.

The article I've seen is here Daily Mail article (ugh, two links to the DM in two posts!)

Which points out that the police report already said he had blood, and that paramedics treated him. However, it also says he received no stitches or further treatment for his wounds. Which says to me that they were not particularly serious.

Of course, if you shoot someone at close range, I imagine you might get some red on you too.

You know, a few years ago there was a cop who shot an unarmed black man in San Francisco. The trial was held in Los Angeles. The jury found the officer guilty of involuntary manslaughter--he was sentenced to two years and he served one year. The officer's defense was that he thought he had reached for his stun gun. Even though the case was very controversial there were no riots after the jury trial or after the sentence (he faced 14 years, the judge gave him two) I think it is an implicit put-down of the black community to assume that they will riot every time a jury result goes against what they want. .

Freeman, I do not think a riot will occur every time there is a bad result. I think there will be a riot if there is a bad result THIS time. I think Zimmerman's case will end up bad regardless of result. When you have hotheads pressuring the community to act on behalf of Trayvon, you get terrible situations.

Remember the Spike Lee screw up?

We all agree that the case should go to trial. Will the result be accepted? In this case, I hope so, but it is unlikely.

b

I think Zimmerman's case will end up bad regardless of result. When you have hotheads pressuring the community to act on behalf of Trayvon, you get terrible situations

.

Thats why the matter of SYG is important. The authorities initially pointed to SYG as a reason why Zimmerman was released without charges. They also closed the case. So its important to understand why and if it did contribute....
I think the "hotheads" pressurring the community is a good thing. Without it Zimmerman wouldn't be held accountable for his actions. Now, at least there is a public trial that will place the facts into public view, give Zimmerman a chance to reply, and an impartial court will make a decision... How can that be a bad thing?
What would be worse for society ? A situation where minority populations felt that they were not getting equal protection under the law from the authorities? Or a population of a major city, so unsure of the effectiveness or professionalism of their police force that they couldn't trust those in uniform? Or perhaps a populace who suddenly realizes that there is a new law that encourages people to take aggressive, dangerous action.
Without the charges, and the review of SYG ....that would be the result....
In good time, and with sufficient careful review I'm sure things will unfold as they should. And the populace will stay in their homes.

"Hotheads" should not be the ones making the case to charge or not to charge. It should be the prosecutor handling the case. But wait... The prosecutor did make the decision. That wasn't good enough though.

As to SYG, I have said that is should be reviewed. Not by the media, not by community organizers, not by anybody but the legislature of Florida.

I hope you are correct that things work the way they are meant to; and that people stay in their homes as well.