bbauska wrote:Danivon, Have you agreed that one of the attackers came from the outside the EU, came into Greece with refugees, went through Serbia and made his way to Paris? His fingerprints were taken at both Greece and Serbia, and found on his body and the passport (which I agree is fake).

No, I am waiting for the full evidence. The guy in Serbia is still there for a start, as the Serbians arrested him.

Now that the apartment in St Denis has been taken, we may get more on who these people were.

What does everyone think of the "Grand Coalition" against ISIS? I would love to see 4 divisions each from Russia, France and the US come in.

I think it would be counter productive, frankly. Better to work with Iraq and the Kurds with more local (regional) forces.

And also not to assume that a military victory will actually stop ISIS from existing. They already have been "defeated" twice.

danivon wrote:And also not to assume that a military victory will actually stop ISIS from existing. They already have been "defeated" twice.

1. When let up, they went back to murder.

2. If they cannot be defeated militarily, what do you propose? Harsh language is right out as that agitates them (the President today "brilliantly" said the Republicans were recruiting for them with their language). Anything anti-ISIS makes them stronger, or so we're told. So, what is the answer? Cupcakes and bon-bons? A liberal just suggested to me we "let them burn themselves out." So, hundreds of thousands of Charles Mansons "burn themselves out." How many people will die as a result? And, when does "burn out" hit?

The next thing I'll hear (no, not from you) suggested is that we help them. I can't wait.

fate

(the President today "brilliantly" said the Republicans were recruiting for them with their language). Anything anti-ISIS makes them stronger, or so we're told

.
ISIS adhere to Wahhabism. A strict puritanical sect of Islam, actually a sub sect of Salafism, that dates from about 1750.
When Republicans and others lump all Muslims in with the Wahabists, or ISIS, they are telling Muslims that ISIS is right. That this is a religious war between Islam and non-believers. It drives some Muslims to become radicalized. And that is how the home grown terror gets started. And how ISIS is able to recruit young Muslims from the region.
By condemning the acceptance of Syrian refugees, GOP governors are busy demonizing the whole religion as dangerous. And playing into the hands of the ISIS strategy.
Besides the fact that its a helluva lot easier for a terrorist to get into the US as a tourist or business visa than as a refugee. On top of this, fact is that most of the ISIS affiliated terror in Europe and the US is conducted by citizens. Many native born.
And that terror, as a way to die in the US, is a drop in the bucket compared to the daily deaths from shootings.

rickyp wrote:fate

(the President today "brilliantly" said the Republicans were recruiting for them with their language). Anything anti-ISIS makes them stronger, or so we're told

.
ISIS adhere to Wahhabism. A strict puritanical sect of Islam, actually a sub sect of Salafism, that dates from about 1750.
When Republicans and others lump all Muslims in with the Wahabists, or ISIS, they are telling Muslims that ISIS is right. That this is a religious war between Islam and non-believers. It drives some Muslims to become radicalized. And that is how the home grown terror gets started. And how ISIS is able to recruit young Muslims from the region.
By condemning the acceptance of Syrian refugees, GOP governors are busy demonizing the whole religion as dangerous. And playing into the hands of the ISIS strategy.
Besides the fact that its a helluva lot easier for a terrorist to get into the US as a tourist or business visa than as a refugee. On top of this, fact is that most of the ISIS affiliated terror in Europe and the US is conducted by citizens. Many native born.
And that terror, as a way to die in the US, is a drop in the bucket compared to the daily deaths from shootings.

Except this is not what is happening.

You do know multiple Obama-appointed security chiefs (including the DNI) have said they cannot vet the refugees, right? You do know the governors want them vetted, right?

You do know Obama is blame-shifting, right?

No one has done more to build up ISIS than he has. No one.

fate

No one has done more to build up ISIS than he has. No one.

Sure. ODS... In your mind he's been funding the bastards I suppose.

Much of the original funding for ISIS came out of Suadi Arabia which is the only the nation with a majority of the populace that practices Wahhabism and the only state that has Wahabism as the national religion. (The difference being that the House of Saud has added the three pillars principle to justify its rule, which ISIS challenges.) But we do know that ISIS would eliminate the House of Saud ... as the Three Pillars are considered a deviation.So, now the Sauds oppose ISIS. Despite many being sympathetic to its ideology.


Fate

You do know multiple Obama-appointed security chiefs (including the DNI) have said they cannot vet the refugees, right? You do know the governors want them vetted, right

The US is committed to taking only 10,000 out of ... 1,000,000? There will be enough that can be vetted to whatever exhaustive standards exist to find 10,000...
Enough families of 3 or 4 children (although I note that Christie is scared of 3 year old orphans too) that should be safely identified...
Meanwhile all these jack ass governors, (who also all got their shorts in a knot over Ebola, remember )... are busy worrying about protecting their citizens while denying the expansion of Medicare of minimal gun control laws... Stuff that is actually killing their citizens now...
What they don't understand is that its very easy to come into the US from Europe on a tourist or business VISA. Any terrorist would do that rather than get in line with the suffering refugees....
And of course they can't get all the guns they need to shoot up a cinema or concert in the US...
Evaluation of Risk is not something these jack ass governors understand at all.


Here's how a Rabbi in Vancouver thinks about the Syrian refugees and why his synagogue is sponsoring a couple of families.

Rabbi Dan Moskovitz has received emails from people concerned about helping refugees, reported The Vancouver Sun, including comments that he should "think before acting," that "they hate us anyway," and "It's a Muslim problem, let those countries come to their aid."
But Moskovitz isn't backing down. He asked synagogue members to swap the word "Muslim" for "Jew" when thinking about refugees.
"Re-read them that way and they are indistinguishable from the same statements that were issued when it was our people, the Jewish people trying desperately to get out of Europe ahead of the Nazi menace," he said.

Interesting attitude isn't it Fate?
Then you've got the french who have recommitted to accepting 300,000 refugees despite the fact its apparent that France is ground zero for ISIS terror...
Now, that's courage and humanity.

rickyp wrote:fate

No one has done more to build up ISIS than he has. No one.

Sure. ODS... In your mind he's been funding the bastards I suppose.

Much of the original funding for ISIS came out of Suadi Arabia which is the only the nation with a majority of the populace that practices Wahhabism and the only state that has Wahabism as the national religion. (The difference being that the House of Saud has added the three pillars principle to justify its rule, which ISIS challenges.) But we do know that ISIS would eliminate the House of Saud ... as the Three Pillars are considered a deviation.So, now the Sauds oppose ISIS. Despite many being sympathetic to its ideology.

Sure. SDS (Saudi Derangement Syndrome)

1. It's not the Saudis who failed to secure an agreement to keep troops in Iraq.
2. It's not the Saudis who virtually ignored ISIS, calling them the JV team.
3. It's not the Saudis who have steadfastly refused to arm the Kurds.
4. It's not the Saudis who failed (until the last few days) to target ISIS supply trucks.
5. It's not the Saudis who placed such restrictive ROE on our planes that 75% of our "combat missions" drop no bombs at all.
6. It's not the Saudis who put in place a $500M training program that produced less than 10 fighters--all of whom were subsequently killed or captured.

I could go on and on.

Riddle me this: what is the "strategy" Obama has in place for dealing with ISIS?

Answer: there is NO strategy. He's doing a military filibuster--claiming to be doing something, but only interested in looking busy until his term is up.

Fate

You do know multiple Obama-appointed security chiefs (including the DNI) have said they cannot vet the refugees, right? You do know the governors want them vetted, right

The US is committed to taking only 10,000 out of ... 1,000,000? There will be enough that can be vetted to whatever exhaustive standards exist to find 10,000...

Prove it.

Enough families of 3 or 4 children (although I note that Christie is scared of 3 year old orphans too) that should be safely identified...

Obama is frightened of anyone who challenges him. He has the thinnest skin of any President since Nixon. And, in American history there has only been one President who was worse: Jefferson Davis.

Meanwhile all these jack ass governors, (who also all got their shorts in a knot over Ebola, remember )... are busy worrying about protecting their citizens while denying the expansion of Medicare of minimal gun control laws...

Nice bit of conflation.

Here's the truth: you're a Canadian. Stop trying to tell us what we should be worried about. Stop telling us we need more socialized medicine, given that our socialist President has had years to fix the VA and can't even get that right.

Don't worry about our guns. Stay out of our country and you have no worries.

Stuff that is actually killing their citizens now...

Your writing is killing citizens right now. They are dying of laughter at the number of irrelevant arguments you are dragging into a discussion about ISIS and Syrian immigrants.

What they don't understand is that its very easy to come into the US from Europe on a tourist or business VISA. Any terrorist would do that rather than get in line with the suffering refugees....
And of course they can't get all the guns they need to shoot up a cinema or concert in the US...
Evaluation of Risk is not something these jack ass governors understand at all.

Hey, you love the party of jackasses, so maybe you should just drink a good cup of shut up.

ISIS has said they are going to infiltrate the immigrants. You don't care. We understand that. Why don't you sponsor some immigrants without screening them?

Here's how a Rabbi in Vancouver thinks about the Syrian refugees and why his synagogue is sponsoring a couple of families.

Rabbi Dan Moskovitz has received emails from people concerned about helping refugees, reported The Vancouver Sun, including comments that he should "think before acting," that "they hate us anyway," and "It's a Muslim problem, let those countries come to their aid."
But Moskovitz isn't backing down. He asked synagogue members to swap the word "Muslim" for "Jew" when thinking about refugees.
"Re-read them that way and they are indistinguishable from the same statements that were issued when it was our people, the Jewish people trying desperately to get out of Europe ahead of the Nazi menace," he said.

Interesting attitude isn't it Fate?

Good for him. Now, how many Jews were Nazi sympathizers?

Then you've got the french who have recommitted to accepting 300,000 refugees despite the fact its apparent that France is ground zero for ISIS terror...
Now, that's courage and humanity.

Good for them.

Of course, they're also blowing up Raqqa.

Good for them.

Why don't you just take care of Canada and stop insulting the US?

No, all the Saudis did was fund and supply the "rebels" who turned out to be ISIS. And of course institute the extreme Wahhabist form of Sunni Islam that Al Qaeda and ISIS are inspired by.

Most 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, but heaven forbid we link the nation to the terrorists it has bred.

Not when you can (predictably) blame Barack again.

danivon wrote:No, all the Saudis did was fund and supply the "rebels" who turned out to be ISIS. And of course institute the extreme Wahhabist form of Sunni Islam that Al Qaeda and ISIS are inspired by.

Most 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, but heaven forbid we link the nation to the terrorists it has bred.

Not when you can (predictably) blame Barack again.

I don't hold the Saudis innocent. I never said they were.

However, a feckless President without any semblance of a coherent strategy is responsible for failing to deal with them. Is it all his fault? No, but he's responsible for doing precious little since he was told of the threat in 2012.

Since last spring the group, also known as ISIS or ISIL, has been expanding beyond its local struggle to international terrorism. In the last two weeks, it did that in a spectacular way, first claiming responsibility for downing a Russian planeload of 224 people, then sending squads of killers who ended the lives of 43 people in Beirut and 129 in Paris. As the world scrambles to respond, the questions pile up like the dead: Who are they? What do they want? Were signals missed that could have stopped the Islamic State before it became so deadly?

And there were, in fact, more than hints of the group’s plans and potential. A 2012 report by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency was direct: The growing chaos in Syria’s civil war was giving Islamic militants there and in Iraq the space to spread and flourish. The group, it said, could “declare an Islamic state through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.”

“This particular report, this was one of those nobody wanted to see,” said Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, who ran the defense agency at the time.

“It was disregarded by the White House,” he said. “It was disregarded by other elements in the intelligence community as a one-off report. Frankly, at the White House, it didn’t meet the narrative.”

No report or event can stand in hindsight as the single missed key to the now terrifyingly complex puzzle of the Islamic State.

Although not yet confirmed, we think a friend of ours lost his 18 year old son to terrorism today in Israel. There's no answer but a strong forceful response. No mercy. No waffling. Life is the most important civil liberty. You have to destroy terrorism and its infrastructure with all of the resources that you have. Once again it is personal.

My condolences. Sad day for you, I am sure.

thank you ... it's been confirmed

Local media reported that the American killed was identified as Ezra Schwartz, 18, from Massachusetts. He was spending the year studying at a yeshiva in Israel.

Ray Jay wrote:thank you ... it's been confirmed

Local media reported that the American killed was identified as Ezra Schwartz, 18, from Massachusetts. He was spending the year studying at a yeshiva in Israel.

Praying...

Ray Jay wrote:thank you ... it's been confirmed

Local media reported that the American killed was identified as Ezra Schwartz, 18, from Massachusetts. He was spending the year studying at a yeshiva in Israel.

Devastating. I'm so sorry.

The son of a good friend of mine is also studying over there right now. It's a bit frightening.

I can never accept or minimize terror. It is a tactic tied to a nihilistic ideology that has no place among civilized peoples.

Again, I'm saddened and extend my deep sympathies to you and the affected family.

Ray Jay wrote:Although not yet confirmed, we think a friend of ours lost his 18 year old son to terrorism today in Israel. There's no answer but a strong forceful response. No mercy. No waffling. Life is the most important civil liberty. You have to destroy terrorism and its infrastructure with all of the resources that you have. Once again it is personal.

My sympathies to you, your friend and his family.

thanks guys