rickyp wrote:fate

If Canadians feel that way, take them all.

Trudeau made a campaign promise to have 25,000 of them into Canada by the end of this year. He won the election handily.
Bringing them here in winter may not be optimum...

Is 25,000 "all" of them, which is what I said?

Btw, how many will be ISIS?

I had to laugh/scream at the moron, Ben Rhodes, who said the US has a "robust" vetting system for refugees.

Really? Who will we contact? The Syrian government? ISIL?

What a joke.

This is a genuine question. I have no idea why "the West" is responsible for this

We bear a responsibility to our fellow man...
Period.

To care for those who may be Islamists? For how long? At what risk?

How do the French feel about their "responsibility" just now?

If you were a refugee would you not want someone to offer refuge, aid and if necessary a new place to make a life?

If I were an able-bodied young, single man (as many of them are), I would fight for my country, not run to another seeking handouts.

Ricky (and Danivon),

Thanks for the clarification and your responses.

sass

. It's a ridiculous comparison

its not.because the refugee crisis after WWII was 10 times what the Middle East crisis is today...
Besides the Germans there were refugees of every race and nation.

And I have read your reasons why the situation is difficult. Why it isn't Europe's burden, And why nothing should be done.

But what happens to these people then?

As in every situation in the past where we're turned aside those seeking help ... Jews from pre WWII Germany, for instance, there is societal regret that we did not help. We are faced with a crisis... no doubt.

rickyp wrote:sass

. It's a ridiculous comparison

its not.because the refugee crisis after WWII was 10 times what the Middle East crisis is today...
Besides the Germans there were refugees of every race and nation

And some of them were Nazis.

Ricky, I'll start answering some of your questions when you answer mine. It would also be nice if you could even begin to acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of the migrants are not Syrian refugees.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911

sass, the story above is my understanding of the "migrant" / "refugee" situation.
It is true that many asylum seekers come from places other than Syria. Some may not really qualify for asylum. (Albanians, Kosovoans, )
If they don't qualify as genuine refugees for asylum, they aren't part of my appeal.
But surely Syrians and Iraqis must usually qualify. . For that matter Afghans and Eirietrians as well.
The numbers are cruel.
If they are not helped, what happens to them?

Why must they usually qualify ? If them then why not Congolese or Burmans or Nigerians or Yemenis or anybody from any part of the world that happens to be shit right now ?

To be absolutely clear btw, if by 'usually qualify' you mean that they'd have a good prospect of having an asylum claim granted then you need a better understanding on the laws concerning asylum. Asylum seekers are required to seek sanctuary in the first safe country. By definition the only Afghans, Eritreans, Iraqis etc who could conceivably satisfy that requirement would be those who arrived by air. Syrians are in a slightly different situation,but by rights none of them should be able to claim in Germany unless they flew there. The only reason they're able to claim at all is that Merkel has unilaterally waived the rules, with disastrous consequences for everybody downstream. Asylum seekers must also demonstrate that their life was under immediate threat. Merely coming from Iraq or Eritrea (or for that matter Syria) is not sufficient to prove that you meet the criteria for being granted asylum. What you're talking about here makes a mockery of the very concept of asylum.

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:

danivon wrote:

bbauska wrote:My prayers go out to France in this terrible terrorist act. I hope that the recent influx of people from the Middle East is not where the terrorists came from.

A terrible cost for a bad decision if that is the case.

Be strong, France

The refugees from Syria are largely fleeing terrorists like this, and the Assad government.

I think it is unlikely they came in as recent refugees. This will have taken some planning and not many have got to France from the most recent wave.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/index.html

Unlikely, but true.

Not yet proven. The passport is a fake, and there could be more than one copy. There is investigation ongoing as to whether fingerprints match.

At an early stage, a lot of evidence comes out but it may not be reliable - one named suspect turned out to be a victim instead.

And, Serbia - where the passport was last traced from Greece - have found the guy using it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 36471.html

Which suggests the details were duplicated. So we have no idea if it came in with the migrants, or some other way.

All of the properly identified terrorists so far have been European residents not recent refugees.

If he was a European citizen then why would he be carrying a fake Syrian passport which was made by a forger in Turkey ? Fake Syrian passports are only of use to illegal migrants who have come through the refugee channels.

Sassenach wrote:If he was a European citizen then why would he be carrying a fake Syrian passport which was made by a forger in Turkey ? Fake Syrian passports are only of use to illegal migrants who have come through the refugee channels.

I don't know. Maybe to pretend to be someone else. What criminal would do that? Maybe to incriminate the migrant wave, to provoke division in Europe and fear among those fleeing Assad.

sass

To be absolutely clear btw, if by 'usually qualify' you mean that they'd have a good prospect of having an asylum claim granted then you need a better understanding on the laws concerning asylum

I understand the laws of asylum. That in strict adherence you need to apply at the landing point.,
The purpose of the law and the ability to properly execute the law seem to be overwhelmed.
If the law cannot cope with the circumstances you set the law aside and deal with practical solutions.
Its important to know who the refugees are and to let those with genuine need and who fit the profile of refugees to find help. To, as quickly as possible, settle them into communities where they ca begin to assimilate into their new society.
The authorities should not stand on a legal point and say to a family, "ah but you landed in Turkey, so you cannot claim status here in ....fill in blank ... "...
Change the laws to fit the situation. Respond with just solutions not with solemn adherence to a law which cannot be humanely enforced.
We are defined by how we treat the least of us...

rickyp wrote:We are defined by how we treat the least of us...

How do we determine they are truly "the least of us?" Because they say so?

Vetting some of these people could take years.

danivon wrote:All of the properly identified terrorists so far have been European residents not recent refugees.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-suspects-profiles/index.html


Any update?

Ok, Ricky, so in that case please explain why all Iraqis, Eritreans and Afghans should be allowed to enter Europe. You still haven't done that.

Perhaps after you've done that you could explain to us how the hell we're supposed to be able to "know who the refugees are and to let those with genuine need and who fit the profile of refugees to find help" when there are thousands of people a day crossing over, fake Syrian passports in great abundance and the immigration service is on its knees through overwork. Throughout this thread you seem to be suggesting that we can magic the problems away. We can't, the problems are an inherent feature of the policy.

bbauska wrote:

danivon wrote:All of the properly identified terrorists so far have been European residents not recent refugees.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/paris-attacks-suspects-profiles/index.html


Any update?

THAT IS THE ONE WITH THE FALSE PASSPORT!

Read the image you posted. His name is in quotes, because they don't know what it really is (not properly identified). He is suspected of having travelled to Greece using false papers, but Serbia have a guy on the same passport info.