Doctor Fate wrote:[
But, that's okay. You pretend that we are incredibly lucky (given the odds against a climate that would sustain life), live in a random universe even though order exists all around you, and now you deny that scientists understand what human life is.

danivon wrote:DF, are you done or not?

Doctor Fate wrote:I won't argue metaphysics and you cannot argue with the science.

theshrizzz wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:[
But, that's okay. You pretend that we are incredibly lucky (given the odds against a climate that would sustain life), live in a random universe even though order exists all around you, and now you deny that scientists understand what human life is.

It's not luck, really. In a way, things had to be the ordered way they are, whether you believe in a creator or not. If some slightly different universe were created (or arose, however you choose to think about it) with qualities that didn't allow for sustained life, then we wouldn't very likely be here to discuss, would we?

Doctor Fate wrote:

theshrizzz wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:[
But, that's okay. You pretend that we are incredibly lucky (given the odds against a climate that would sustain life), live in a random universe even though order exists all around you, and now you deny that scientists understand what human life is.

It's not luck, really. In a way, things had to be the ordered way they are, whether you believe in a creator or not. If some slightly different universe were created (or arose, however you choose to think about it) with qualities that didn't allow for sustained life, then we wouldn't very likely be here to discuss, would we?

Right.

And, the atheist poses a mathematical probability virtually indistinguishable from zero. It's something akin to hitting the lottery every day for your lifetime and your progeny doing the same for several generations.

Doctor Fate wrote:Right.

And, the atheist poses a mathematical probability virtually indistinguishable from zero. It's something akin to hitting the lottery every day for your lifetime and your progeny doing the same for several generations.

freeman3 wrote:True (in reference to DF's post) but the universe had an infinite number of chances over an infinite amount of time to get it right....and as far as we know life has only been created once... God went to an awful lot of trouble to to create a universe that is at least 13.8 billion light years wide to create life on one planet...seems like pretty darn good evidence of a lack of a plan to me...

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:Right.

And, the atheist poses a mathematical probability virtually indistinguishable from zero. It's something akin to hitting the lottery every day for your lifetime and your progeny doing the same for several generations.

I defer to your superior knowledge of Mathematics, as I merely have a Bachelor of Science with Honours in the subject. But I am clear that there is a difference between "zero" and anything, however small it may be, that is not zero.

danivon wrote:For someone who "won't argue" and "is done", you sure do post a lot to disagree with people...

I know what you wrote. The point is that a very small number IS distinguishable from zero, by definition.

If a miscarriage is the same as abortion, why do women mourn a miscarriage?

rickyp wrote:Women deserve to be treated with dignity and have respect for their choices.

They also deserve to be given the support of their community.

Instead, what goes on are attempts to shame women. (I'm thinking here of things like forced ultrasounds)

Families deserve the support of society, instead economic circumstance and the lack of progressive maternity or family leave forces stress on mothers that can only make abortion a more attractive option.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... n-20140115

The Need for Ramah International is based on Jeremiah 31: 15
“A voice is heard in Ramah - mourning and great weeping. Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted because her children are no more.“

The research arm of Planned Parenthood (the world's largest abortion provider), the Alan Guttmacher Institute, states that, “An estimated 43% of women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old” (“Facts in Brief: Induced Abortion,” The Alan Guttmacher Institute, Washington‚ DC‚ January‚ 2000.). Clearly, the post abortive represent a large segment of our society. Yet few confess to this sin - especially to family and friends. Many deny comfort because they fear rejection and/or are unable to confront their own participation in ending their child’s life. Except for a handful of small ministry efforts offered through our nation’s 3‚200 pregnancy care centers and direct ministries, little is being done to reach these hearts with forgiveness and healing comfort available through Jesus Christ.

The Solution Ramah International Can Provide Our World
“This is what the Lord says, 'restrain your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears. For your work will be rewarded. Your children will return from the land of the enemy.” (Jeremiah 31: 16)

Ramah International's purpose is to bring individuals struggling with (PAS) to healing so they can cease mourning by finally grieving their children's deaths and live a normal life. It's heartbreaking work to touch this pain, yet helping them to acknowledge the loss of their children is the first step to PAS healing, and their “work will be rewarded.” When a person suffering from PAS names their child, the child becomes a permanent part of their parent's hearts. In essence, they are redeemed from Satan's grasp and “return from the land of the enemy.”

The Result of Ramah International's Work
“So there is hope for your future, declares the Lord.” (Jeremiah 31: 17a)

What is the hope for someone suffering from PAS? For many, it is to stop abortion from hurting other lives. This ministry believes that it is only through the healed voices of the post abortive attesting to the devastation abortion causes that it can finally be reduced. Post abortive individuals are the only ones who can attest to the fact that abortion is a horrible choice - not only for the mother but also for the child.
Company Profile
Many have chosen abortion because they believe what society has told them:

It is the only means to solve a crisis in their life.
It is only a blob of tissue.

Unfortunately, abortion does not solve their problems - it actually compounds them. PAS may take years surface, but the overwhelming majority of those who have abortions are confronted with the truth and reality of their decision to abort, and struggle with PAS. They come to the realization that they took the life of their own child. Many are also faced with the physical consequences of sterility. When they have been confronted with these harsh realities, many suffer symptoms of PAS.

With respect to their choices, I ask "Really?" Are all choices equally valid? Does everyone have to respect a woman's "choice" to hook up with a drug dealer and gang member? Do we have to respect a woman's "choice" to have a baby with a man in prison doing life? Do we have to respect a woman's "choice" to get impregnated after her first 5 children are in fostercare because of an ongoing addiction? Are there no "choices" that deserve zero respect?

Rickyp
Instead, what goes on are attempts to shame women. (I'm thinking here of things like forced ultrasounds)

Fate
Is that an attempt to shame women? Can you prove that? What if it is an attempt to inform women as to what they actually have inside of them? And, before you shout back a "they already know" response, then why do some change their minds after an ultrasound?

Are you sure you want to use that link?