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- Doctor Fate
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21 Dec 2011, 1:02 pm
geojanes wrote:Well, yes. As far as the budget is concerned the payroll tax cut is the same as any tax cut: it adds to the deficit. The real reason to like it is who gets the benefit: people who work. You don't even have to file your income taxes to get the benefit. If you're going to have a tax cut, you couldn't have a better one than the payroll tax cut because it benefits those who, in my opinion, deserve tax relief the most. You're with me on that, aren't you good Doctor?
If you're going to give a tax cut, it is a fine choice.
The question, of course, is what is the purpose of the cut? Is it to strengthen the economy? How has that worked over the last year? Is giving it a two-month extension (and that is what the Democrats ran out of town after achieving) really going to help if 12 months didn't?
We all can see what this is: Obama and Reid playing politics to distract from the President's pathetic performance.
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- rickyp
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21 Dec 2011, 2:12 pm
steve
We all can see what this is: Obama and Reid playing politics to distract from the President's pathetic performance.
Their plan seems to be working:
- President Barack Obama's approval rating, a crucial indicator of his reelection chances, is on the rise, according to a new national survey.
A CNN/ORC International Poll out Tuesday also indicates that the partisan battle over extending the payroll tax cut may be partially responsible for the jump in the president's numbers.
According to the survey, 49% of Americans approve of the job Obama's doing in the White House, up five points from last month, with 48% saying they disapprove, down six points from mid-November. The 49% approval rating is the president's highest since May,
source:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... earing-50/
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- freeman2
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21 Dec 2011, 2:16 pm
i find it hard to understand why the Republicans would not approve the extension. Are they just miffed because they didn't get the pipeline extension they wanted? Politically, it does not make any sense. You can talk all you want about whether the payroll tax cut provides economic stimulus, but when people are hurting they want tangible signs that something will be done to help them. Moreover, it undermines an argument that Republicans could at least make that they will try and stimulate the economy through tax cuts rather than through spending. Now Obama can say Republicans only favor tax cuts when it helps their corporate buddies and the rich. Good job, Republicans.
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- Doctor Fate
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21 Dec 2011, 2:35 pm
rickyp wrote:steve
We all can see what this is: Obama and Reid playing politics to distract from the President's pathetic performance.
Their plan seems to be working:
- President Barack Obama's approval rating, a crucial indicator of his reelection chances, is on the rise, according to a new national survey.
A CNN/ORC International Poll out Tuesday also indicates that the partisan battle over extending the payroll tax cut may be partially responsible for the jump in the president's numbers.
According to the survey, 49% of Americans approve of the job Obama's doing in the White House, up five points from last month, with 48% saying they disapprove, down six points from mid-November. The 49% approval rating is the president's highest since May,
source:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... earing-50/
Meh. The problem is I don't think this approach is sustainable in the long run.
I know Obama will have a billion dollars to run on ads, but the GOP won't be broke. I look forward to the ad in which Obama lists his first 2 years as the best in American history. Great is his humbleness!
I know that you probably examined the poll carefully. Let's see, which is more likely--the President's approval went up 5 points in a month in which he did nothing but politic and blame-shift, or that the poll is an outlier? Maybe the poll might tell us:
Interviews with 1,015 adult Americans conducted by telephone by ORC International on December 16-18, 2011.
Not registered voters; not likely voters, but adults.
Ooooh, I'm so scared!
Anytime you're feeling confident about his reelection and want to actually put up, please say so.
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- Doctor Fate
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21 Dec 2011, 2:38 pm
freeman2 wrote:i find it hard to understand why the Republicans would not approve the extension. Are they just miffed because they didn't get the pipeline extension they wanted? Politically, it does not make any sense.
Yeah, darn those Republicans for actually having principles! They actually got the pipeline decision amendment in the Senate bill. The main problem is that this is a 2 month agreement.
The President, who demanded a year-long extension, now is railing at the GOP for agreeing with him. Good to know he's not bound by those nasty principles!
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- Neal Anderth
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21 Dec 2011, 2:40 pm
@ Geo: Give relief if you want, but certainly don't attach it to anything with Social Security or Medicare. IMHO it's a trojan horse so to speak to allow the government to muck around with it at will. It should absolutely be self funded or we end up like the Greeks where people have retirements promises with no bearing on reality. As I've said previously if Social Security is self funded it could survive a general government default because it can be approximately sustained through current inputs.
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- Archduke Russell John
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22 Dec 2011, 8:53 am
Ray Jay wrote:I think that you have to look at the history over the last 4 weeks ... the house passed a 1 year extension which, among other things, required that the XL Pipeline be approved thru North Dakota... the Senate and the President wouldn't go for that, so the leadership of both the Senate, the House, and the administration met to craft a deal, which was a 2 month extension and a yea/nay decision by Obama on the pipeline in that 2 month period. This was the political compromise. It meant that the pipeline had to be decided now (which the Obama administration didn't want to do). It also meant that the Republicans would have some leverage in 2 months.
So, the Republicans reneged on their own deal ... that's a political problem and may even have repercussions for the general election. It shows that the Republicans cannot even agree amongst themselves let alone with the Dems. When the issue at hand is the dysfunction of Washington, the GOP just handed the Dems a lot of ammunition.
But again, the DEMOCRATS are the ones that refused to pass a 12 month extenstion of the tax cut. Republicans were ready, willing and able to pass the 12 month extension and the DEMOCRATs refused to.
Who cares were the 2 months came from. Republicans passed a 12 months extension and the Democrats said no. Any blame at this point should squarely be on the Democrats.
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- Doctor Fate
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22 Dec 2011, 9:06 am
Archduke Russell John wrote:Ray Jay wrote:I think that you have to look at the history over the last 4 weeks ... the house passed a 1 year extension which, among other things, required that the XL Pipeline be approved thru North Dakota... the Senate and the President wouldn't go for that, so the leadership of both the Senate, the House, and the administration met to craft a deal, which was a 2 month extension and a yea/nay decision by Obama on the pipeline in that 2 month period. This was the political compromise. It meant that the pipeline had to be decided now (which the Obama administration didn't want to do). It also meant that the Republicans would have some leverage in 2 months.
So, the Republicans reneged on their own deal ... that's a political problem and may even have repercussions for the general election. It shows that the Republicans cannot even agree amongst themselves let alone with the Dems. When the issue at hand is the dysfunction of Washington, the GOP just handed the Dems a lot of ammunition.
But again, the DEMOCRATS are the ones that refused to pass a 12 month extenstion of the tax cut. Republicans were ready, willing and able to pass the 12 month extension and the DEMOCRATs refused to.
Who cares were the 2 months came from. Republicans passed a 12 months extension and the Democrats said no. Any blame at this point should squarely be on the Democrats.
Furthermore, for anyone paying attention, the genesis of the problem is what? That one chamber of the Congress has not passed a budget in well over 2 years, so we keep getting these continuing resolutions and half-hearted, stop-gap measures and constant "shutdown" threats. Is it the "do-nothing" Republicans in charge?
It's Harry Reid and the Democrats in the Senate.
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- Ray Jay
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22 Dec 2011, 9:20 am
Except that the Republicans shifted the goal posts after they already agreed on a deal. Boehner told Obama and Reid that the House would agree to the 2 month extension in exchange for the Keystone review (and a bunch of other stuff including no tax increases on the wealthy).
Whether that was a good deal or not (the vast majority of Senate Republicans think it was a very good deal) is irreverent. Once you cut that big a deal after a month of negotiation on Dec. 20th, you have to take it. Even the WSJ is blaming the Republicans for this one. Their conservative creds are solid.
If Republicans cannot manage their disagreements (tea party vs. mainstream) by compromising amongst themselves, they create a lot of agitas for the electorate.
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- Doctor Fate
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22 Dec 2011, 9:50 am
Ray Jay wrote:Except that the Republicans shifted the goal posts after they already agreed on a deal. Boehner told Obama and Reid that the House would agree to the 2 month extension in exchange for the Keystone review (and a bunch of other stuff including no tax increases on the wealthy).
Whether that was a good deal or not (the vast majority of Senate Republicans think it was a very good deal) is irreverent. Once you cut that big a deal after a month of negotiation on Dec. 20th, you have to take it. Even the WSJ is blaming the Republicans for this one. Their conservative creds are solid.
If Republicans cannot manage their disagreements (tea party vs. mainstream) by compromising amongst themselves, they create a lot of agitas for the electorate.
Have to be honest: this is not their finest hour, politically. However, in the end, this is nearly a year from the elections. This will be forgotten by then, swamped by whatever economic news there is and the continuing drip-drip-drip of Solyndra-like scandals, Volt-like fiascos, and Holder-inspired fiascos.
In the long run, the fact that Republicans are being excoriated now for wanting a year-long deal instead of a two-month deal seems pretty incidental.
NB: where is the press' outrage over the failure of the Federal government to even HAVE a budget? We're going on 3 years without one. The GOP-led House passed one. Where is Obama actually "leading?" A great argument can be made that his main role is now Complainer-in-Chief/Campaigner-in-Chief. I don't think the campaign will turn on this tax issue, not with record-deficits the President refuses to address, not with a historically weak recovery that his policies have hampered, etc.
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- Archduke Russell John
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22 Dec 2011, 11:44 am
Ray Jay wrote:Except that the Republicans shifted the goal posts after they already agreed on a deal. Boehner told Obama and Reid that the House would agree to the 2 month extension in exchange for the Keystone review (and a bunch of other stuff including no tax increases on the wealthy).
Whether that was a good deal or not (the vast majority of Senate Republicans think it was a very good deal) is irreverent. Once you cut that big a deal after a month of negotiation on Dec. 20th, you have to take it. Even the WSJ is blaming the Republicans for this one. Their conservative creds are solid.
Who cares. Republicans passed a 12 month extension and the Democrats said no only 2 months. House Republicans said No 12 months. Period end of story.
Democrats said no to a 12 month extension of the tax cut. Who cares what deal was worked out afterwards.
All that matters is Democrats said no to a 12 month extension of the tax cut. .
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- bbauska
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22 Dec 2011, 12:01 pm
Which would you rather have, RJ? Which party is trying to meet your needs?
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- Ray Jay
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22 Dec 2011, 12:02 pm
Who cares
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Lamar Alexander R TN
Kelly Ayotte R NH
John Barrasso R WY
Roy Blunt R MO
John Boozman R AR
Scott Brown R MA
Richard M. Burr R NC
Saxby Chambliss R GA
Daniel Coats R IN
Tom Coburn R OK
Thad Cochran R MS
Susan Collins R ME
John Cornyn R TX
Michael D. Crapo R ID
Michael B. Enzi R WY
Lindsey Graham R SC
Charles E. Grassley R IA
Orrin G. Hatch R UT
Dean Heller R NV
John Hoeven R ND
Kay Bailey Hutchison R TX
James M. Inhofe R OK
Johnny Isakson R GA
Mike Johanns R NE
Jon Kyl R AZ
Mike Lee R UT
Richard G. Lugar R IN
John McCain R AZ
Mitch McConnell R KY
Lisa Murkowski R AK
Rob Portman R OH
Jim Risch R ID
Pat Roberts R KS
Marco Rubio R FL
Olympia J. Snowe R ME
John Thune R SD
Patrick J. Toomey R PA
David Vitter R LA
Roger Wicker R MS
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- Ray Jay
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22 Dec 2011, 12:03 pm
bbauska wrote:Which party is trying to meet your needs?
Neither. How about you?
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- Archduke Russell John
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22 Dec 2011, 12:17 pm
freeman2 wrote:i find it hard to understand why the Republicans would not approve the extension. Are they just miffed because they didn't get the pipeline extension they wanted? Politically, it does not make any sense.
They got the pipeline agreement. The reason they didn't approve it was because the tax cut extension was only 2 months. The gave the President what he want.....a 12 month extension of the tax cut and the Democrats rejected 12 months in favor of 2 months.
