freeman3 wrote:Of course, a white conservative on welfare as an adult would have a tough time of it as well. When a person 's life story conflicts with their views...they 're going to get called on it.

freeman3 wrote:The relevant point made by you is regarding whether a person who benefits from a program can criticize the program--the rest is deflection. Sure, a person can criticize a program they benefited from. However, The more they benefit from that program...the more they are going to be asked to defend their current criticism of that program given their prior benefit from it. People tend to have a sharp eye for the hypocrite in politics...

Doctor Fate wrote:So, let's see:

1. Someone who stays on welfare their entire life even though they could work and just choose not to--that's a good liberal, presuming they espouse the Democratic Party's vision.

2. Anyone who at anytime benefits from a government program cannot criticize that program.

3. Racial preferences ought to be set in stone. Should we then punish other ethnic groups, like Asians? After all, they are disproportionately represented at some of the more prestigious schools. Furthermore, the discrimination against them was not enough to set them back, so some additional measures are needed.

4. A conservative who has money is a bad person because they have money (see Romney); a conservative who does not have money is most likely a hypocrite. Discuss.

5. Harry Reid was not wealthy before he got into government. Some of the votes he has taken seem to have enriched him and he is now a wealthy man. However, since he is a liberal, that is fine. Discuss.

6. No one can truly be a success unless the government had a hand in the venture. If there was no government intervention, the person was either a robber baron or dishonest in some blatant way.

I guess this is what passes for a tough exam in college these days.

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:So, let's see:

roll up, roll up, it's let's build straw man day!!!

I guess this is what passes for a tough exam in college these days.

bbauska wrote:Or... Some people can spout off and just quote other people's opinions without personal knowledge...

For instance, who can dispute the importance of personal responsibility – not a Republican invention, by the way – when Carson tells in his autobiography, “Gifted Hands,” how his mother, not willing to believe he was a “dummy” as teachers and fellow students called him, made his brother and him turn off the television set and write her twice-weekly essays. She then made them read the essays to her.

It was years later, he said, before his brother and he realized that their mother made them read the essays because she was illiterate. In explaining how he succeeded, Carson proclaimed at CPAC, “It was because I had a mother who believed in me.”

She didn’t do it alone

No doubt, Mother Carson deserves tremendous credit, but – in the words of a political sound bite from the last presidential election – she didn’t do it alone. Carson, in his book, tells how his grades improved tremendously when a government program provided him with free eyeglasses because he could barely see. Not only that, in “Gifted Hands” we read this nugget: “By the time I reached ninth grade, mother had made such strides that she received nothing but food stamps. She couldn’t have provided for us and kept up the house without that subsidy.”

He writes elsewhere, “As I’ve said, we received food stamps and couldn’t have made it without them.”

Oy. Ben Carson now, though, bemoans the “welfare state” and talks about how the rich have always taken care of the poor, how “no one is starving in America” and how government dependence kills initiative.

Eating welfare cheese obviously didn’t kill his ambition or prevent him from becoming a great surgeon, but he now thinks it would be bad for everyone else. Sort of like Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, eh, railing against Medicare and government-backed student loans – even while admitting that his parents received Medicare and he went to college on student loans?

How many more Ben Carsons might there be out there who, if Carson’s plans go into effect, would never get a chance to shine?

Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:

Doctor Fate wrote:So, let's see:

roll up, roll up, it's let's build straw man day!!!

False, so the rest of your post is bull. I was building on his "logic."

If Carson benefited from government, then he's not permitted to criticize any program from which he benefited. Oh, wait. Yes, he can . . . he'll just be decried as a hypocrite.

danivon wrote:Well, yes. It's called "pulling up the ladder" in this case. His mother needed food stamps, he was put on government funded special ed and given free glasses. Now he wants to stop other people getting the benefits that he had. Without them, would he have gotten to medical school?

Just as he is free to criticise, others are free to challenge him. Freedom of expression works both ways, y'know?

Doctor Fate wrote:

danivon wrote:Well, yes. It's called "pulling up the ladder" in this case. His mother needed food stamps, he was put on government funded special ed and given free glasses. Now he wants to stop other people getting the benefits that he had. Without them, would he have gotten to medical school?

Just as he is free to criticise, others are free to challenge him. Freedom of expression works both ways, y'know?

I don't believe Carson has ever said food stamps, etc. should be put to an end. So, really, it's all nonsense.

"We take the downtrodden in our society and we pat them on the head,"Carson said. "We say ‘There, there, you poor little thing. I’m gonna give you health care. I’m gonna give you housing subsidies, I’m gonna give you food stamps. You don’t have to worry about anything. What that has done is create generation upon generation of people who just live that way, waiting for government handouts."

danivon wrote:But he does put out a consistent message at the moment that welfare (and including food stamps) are harmful (even to the point of directly contradicting what he wrote in one of his books).

"We take the downtrodden in our society and we pat them on the head,"Carson said. "We say ‘There, there, you poor little thing. I’m gonna give you health care. I’m gonna give you housing subsidies, I’m gonna give you food stamps. You don’t have to worry about anything. What that has done is create generation upon generation of people who just live that way, waiting for government handouts."

Doctor Fate wrote:I saw this earlier today. Y'all are just like the protesters telling the cop how he "should" view his race.

Doctor Fate wrote:And, he's right. There ought to be a balance between helping people who are down and out through no fault of their own on the one hand, and creating dependency on the other. Liberals read that and shout, "You want to starve/kill poor people!" No, we want to help them get on their feet and then get ahead by their own labor. It's the whole "teach a man to fish" thing.