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Post 12 Jun 2014, 10:46 am

Doctor Fate wrote:To Geo, I would note that anyone who believes in the Bible (OT or NT) believes that God establishes governments and takes them down. So, what Brat said is none too surprising. Let me know if he starts talking about establishing a caliphate.


Ok . . . but he has a mandate from the (Republican) people, not from God; an election happened, not a miracle. I think everyone gets worried when politicians start thinking that they and their political career are instruments of God's will. I don't know if this guy thinks this or not, but comments like he made are at least a little worrying.
Last edited by geojanes on 12 Jun 2014, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 11:34 am

geojanes wrote:Ok . . . but he has a mandate from the (Republican) people, not from God; an election happened, not a miracle.


Right after I made this post, I ate lunch and watched yesterday's daily show while doing it: Clips they show in the beginning have Mr. Brat saying that his victory was a miracle several times. Context matters, and the Daily Show doesn't do context, so I take the clip with a grain of salt, but it was just too strange not to note.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episodes/ihv0f4/june-11--2014---charles-schumer
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 11:46 am

geojanes wrote:
geojanes wrote:Ok . . . but he has a mandate from the (Republican) people, not from God; an election happened, not a miracle.


Right after I made this post, I ate lunch and watched yesterday's daily show while doing it: Clips they show in the beginning have Mr. Brat saying that his victory was a miracle several times. Context matters, and the Daily Show doesn't do context, so I take the clip with a grain of salt, but it was just too strange not to note.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episodes/ihv0f4/june-11--2014---charles-schumer


Given that he was outspent 25:1, he was a nobody running against the Majority Leader, and no one expected him to win . . . is "miracle" such scary language. Need I remind you of "the Miracle Mets" or "the Miracle on Ice?"

Anyone who says it isn't a "miracle" in the political sense is lying.

And again, we have a President who says he's a Christian . . . correct? Of course, we all know why that doesn't scare the Left . . . because everyone knows he's being disingenuous. This guy scares you because he actually might believe in something.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 11:50 am

Rick Ungar in Forbes is not impressed with Brat (and says he's glad to see Cantor lose):

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... rime-time/

Spending the first part of the interview happily discussing his position as a free-market supporter, all was going according to Brat’s script until Todd dared to ask the Republican nominee some actual questions on national policy.

Chuck began by tossing Professor Brat a softball, asking whether the candidate supported a federally mandated minimum wage...

...[Brat] struggled to avoid the question, obviously afraid of angering any voters who might be listening or create any news he felt could be harmful to his chances in November.

Smelling blood in Brat’s lack of a solid response, Todd pushed him for an answer, causing Mr. Brat to reply—

“ I don’t have a well-crafted response to that one.”

Call me crazy but I would have thought that a tenured, 18 year economics professor running for Congress on a free market platform might have given some though to the issue of a federally mandated minimum wage at some point before this morning’s interview...

...While Brat’s response to an easy question should be distressing to every Virginian who gave him their vote, let alone those who did not, it all got substantially worse when Todd asked Mr. Brat a fairly simple foreign policy question.

“On a foreign policy issue, arming the Syrian rebels. Would you be in favor of that?”

This was, to Mr. Brat’s thinking, going to far. How dare the media quiz a guy favored to enter the House of Representatives in January about his thoughts on a critical foreign policy matter?

For the man who had just toppled the House Majority Leader, a foreign policy question qualified as unfair sandbagging—and Brat wasn’t afraid to say so.

“Hey, Chuck, I thought we were just going to chat today about the celebratory aspects,” Brat said. “I’d love to go through all of this but my mind is just— I didn’t get much sleep last night. I love all the policy questions but I just wanted to talk about the victory ahead and I wanted to thank everybody that worked so hard on my campaign. I’m happy to take policy issues at any time, I just wanted to call out a thanks to everybody today.”

Really? Talk about a disingenuous response.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 11:59 am

Doctor Fate wrote:
geojanes wrote:
geojanes wrote:Ok . . . but he has a mandate from the (Republican) people, not from God; an election happened, not a miracle.


Right after I made this post, I ate lunch and watched yesterday's daily show while doing it: Clips they show in the beginning have Mr. Brat saying that his victory was a miracle several times. Context matters, and the Daily Show doesn't do context, so I take the clip with a grain of salt, but it was just too strange not to note.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/full-episodes/ihv0f4/june-11--2014---charles-schumer


Given that he was outspent 25:1, he was a nobody running against the Majority Leader, and no one expected him to win . . . is "miracle" such scary language. Need I remind you of "the Miracle Mets" or "the Miracle on Ice?"

Anyone who says it isn't a "miracle" in the political sense is lying.

And again, we have a President who says he's a Christian . . . correct? Of course, we all know why that doesn't scare the Left . . . because everyone knows he's being disingenuous.


Right, the word has become so common, and that's why I qualified my comment by saying we didn't have full context. So, yes, it's a political miracle that he won. No doubt.

But if he believes this is a miracle in the sense of water-into-wine, then people would be right to be concerned. There are lots of bad examples of people who govern with the belief that they are the instrument of God's will, most of them from either long ago, and/or far, far away.

Doctor Fate wrote:This guy scares you because he actually might believe in something.


Well, I guess it depends on what that "something" is, does't it?
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 12:05 pm

danivon wrote:Rick Ungar in Forbes is not impressed with Brat (and says he's glad to see Cantor lose):

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... rime-time/

Spending the first part of the interview happily discussing his position as a free-market supporter, all was going according to Brat’s script until Todd dared to ask the Republican nominee some actual questions on national policy.

Chuck began by tossing Professor Brat a softball, asking whether the candidate supported a federally mandated minimum wage...

...[Brat] struggled to avoid the question, obviously afraid of angering any voters who might be listening or create any news he felt could be harmful to his chances in November.

Smelling blood in Brat’s lack of a solid response, Todd pushed him for an answer, causing Mr. Brat to reply—

“ I don’t have a well-crafted response to that one.”

Call me crazy but I would have thought that a tenured, 18 year economics professor running for Congress on a free market platform might have given some though to the issue of a federally mandated minimum wage at some point before this morning’s interview...

...While Brat’s response to an easy question should be distressing to every Virginian who gave him their vote, let alone those who did not, it all got substantially worse when Todd asked Mr. Brat a fairly simple foreign policy question.

“On a foreign policy issue, arming the Syrian rebels. Would you be in favor of that?”

This was, to Mr. Brat’s thinking, going to far. How dare the media quiz a guy favored to enter the House of Representatives in January about his thoughts on a critical foreign policy matter?

For the man who had just toppled the House Majority Leader, a foreign policy question qualified as unfair sandbagging—and Brat wasn’t afraid to say so.

“Hey, Chuck, I thought we were just going to chat today about the celebratory aspects,” Brat said. “I’d love to go through all of this but my mind is just— I didn’t get much sleep last night. I love all the policy questions but I just wanted to talk about the victory ahead and I wanted to thank everybody that worked so hard on my campaign. I’m happy to take policy issues at any time, I just wanted to call out a thanks to everybody today.”

Really? Talk about a disingenuous response.


I'm not impressed with Unger.

1. I'm sure many VA voters were watching MSNBC. Wait. No one watches MSNBC.

2. He, as he explained, had been up most of the night. He didn't expect to win. NO ONE thought he was going to win, including Cantor--and Chuck Todd.

3. He's an economics prof. If he has no position on the minimum wage, I'd be surprised. But, the minimum wage is not a "softball question." It's quicksand. It's a Democrat ploy to buy votes--as with much of Obama's agenda.

4. I've seen/heard plenty of Unger. He's no conservative. And, that article is pure snide.

5. He's a political naif. If he had handlers and staff, they would have told him to take a nap and avoid MSNBC like the plague. There's only downside--no one who watches through the insufferable line-up at that station would ever vote for a conservative (PS: I watch it when I travel. It's not only liberal; it's mostly dishonest).
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 12:07 pm

geojanes wrote:There are lots of bad examples of people who govern with the belief that they are the instrument of God's will, most of them from either long ago, and/or far, far away.


I knew you'd come around on Obama. After all, who has ever had a messiah complex like him? He's so convinced of it he's chucked the Constitution.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 12:54 pm

God establishes governments and takes them down? That is a pretty major limitation on the free will of Man,, isn't it? If God intervenes that much then why doesn't he step into to stop genocides? Amazing that such a benevolent god would create a world where the major rule of survival among animals is to eat others or be eaten. One would think that a perfect God could design a less brutal world...No time to stop genocides, wars, hunger, violence, human suffering--but he can step in to boot Cantor out...It's a miracle!
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 1:30 pm

freeman3 wrote:God establishes governments and takes them down? That is a pretty major limitation on the free will of Man,, isn't it?


Matter of fact, yes.

If God intervenes that much then why doesn't he step into to stop genocides?


Those are brought on by the sin of Man. And, He does (eventually) stop them. See WW2.

Amazing that such a benevolent god would create a world where the major rule of survival among animals is to eat others or be eaten.


Actually, He created a world without death. And, He's going to restore that world.

One would think that a perfect God could design a less brutal world...No time to stop genocides, wars, hunger, violence, human suffering--but he can step in to boot Cantor out...It's a miracle!


One would think that a God abandoned so often by His chosen people would give up on them. He hasn't. Those Israelites are one of the few "ites" still around--talk about a miracle!
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 1:32 pm

Doctor Fate wrote: He's so convinced of it he's chucked the Constitution.


Yeah, well, it's a flawed work of man. So whatever.

KIDDING!
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 1:36 pm

geojanes wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote: He's so convinced of it he's chucked the Constitution.


Yeah, well, it's a flawed work of man. So whatever.

KIDDING!


I think it's time for Miracle Max.

I would have laughed even without the "kidding."
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 2:41 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:1. I'm sure many VA voters were watching MSNBC. Wait. No one watches MSNBC.
Not really relevant. The popularity, or lack of, of MSNBC doesn't alter what someone said when on it.

2. He, as he explained, had been up most of the night. He didn't expect to win. NO ONE thought he was going to win, including Cantor--and Chuck Todd.
Sure. But he can't say what he thinks about a pretty basic economic policy issue because he's tired?

3. He's an economics prof. If he has no position on the minimum wage, I'd be surprised. But, the minimum wage is not a "softball question." It's quicksand. It's a Democrat ploy to buy votes--as with much of Obama's agenda.
All the more reason, surely, for an economics professor to explain to us why it's such a bad idea. He could be honest. He could stand up for his beliefs. He could...

Ach, he's just another politician, hoodwinking voters.

4. I've seen/heard plenty of Unger. He's no conservative. And, that article is pure snide.
I know he's not a hardcore Republican. But was he wrong on the facts, even if he did spin the message? Did he misquote Brat?

I also know who Chuck Todd is. I guess Brat may have an idea, even with a bit of tiredness, that a former Democrat staffer and policy wonk would ask a question or two about policy. Besides, politics is not just about winning elections, it's about what you are winning them for.

5. He's a political naif. If he had handlers and staff, they would have told him to take a nap and avoid MSNBC like the plague. There's only downside--no one who watches through the insufferable line-up at that station would ever vote for a conservative (PS: I watch it when I travel. It's not only liberal; it's mostly dishonest).
I tend to avoid all US news channels. But it is easy (even when in the US). Again, repeating your first point is redundant. And however much a 'naif' he is (He's been an advisor to a State senator for 6 years and to the Governor for 9 years, he's tried to run for office before..), he seems to have quickly adapted to the idea of politicians avoiding questions, and getting all upset by awkward questions.

And do you really want a naif to end up in Congress? Mr Smith Goes to Washington (and The Distinguished Gentleman) are Hollywood creations. The reality is that you need politicians with a bit of nous.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 3:42 pm

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:1. I'm sure many VA voters were watching MSNBC. Wait. No one watches MSNBC.
Not really relevant. The popularity, or lack of, of MSNBC doesn't alter what someone said when on it.


Quite right. My point, however, was there was NO reason to go on it--and they are known to be as far left and incoherent as . . . well, Al Sharpton.

2. He, as he explained, had been up most of the night. He didn't expect to win. NO ONE thought he was going to win, including Cantor--and Chuck Todd.
Sure. But he can't say what he thinks about a pretty basic economic policy issue because he's tired?


I'm sure you, having done hundreds of live TV interviews, would have been flawless. He was not.

3. He's an economics prof. If he has no position on the minimum wage, I'd be surprised. But, the minimum wage is not a "softball question." It's quicksand. It's a Democrat ploy to buy votes--as with much of Obama's agenda.
All the more reason, surely, for an economics professor to explain to us why it's such a bad idea. He could be honest. He could stand up for his beliefs. He could...

Ach, he's just another politician, hoodwinking voters.


Based on one sound clip? Good for you! That's putting the blinkers on!

4. I've seen/heard plenty of Unger. He's no conservative. And, that article is pure snide.
I know he's not a hardcore Republican. But was he wrong on the facts, even if he did spin the message? Did he misquote Brat?


Is he a Republican? I'm dubious. He spun it as furiously as Obama spins everything. In fact, it could have been the President writing that.

I also know who Chuck Todd is. I guess Brat may have an idea, even with a bit of tiredness, that a former Democrat staffer and policy wonk would ask a question or two about policy. Besides, politics is not just about winning elections, it's about what you are winning them for.


Let me know if Brat loses.

And do you really want a naif to end up in Congress? Mr Smith Goes to Washington (and The Distinguished Gentleman) are Hollywood creations. The reality is that you need politicians with a bit of nous.


We need them with a bit of honesty. Something that is lacking on both sides of the aisle.
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Post 12 Jun 2014, 3:56 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:I'm sure you, having done hundreds of live TV interviews, would have been flawless. He was not.
I have done live radio. I was pretty tired (it was also following an election). I didn't forget my stance on a pretty basic issue that came up in the interview. Neither did I fudge it with BS. And I certainly didn't pull the old "we didn't agree to question on that topic" gambit.

3. He's an economics prof. If he has no position on the minimum wage, I'd be surprised. But, the minimum wage is not a "softball question." It's quicksand. It's a Democrat ploy to buy votes--as with much of Obama's agenda.
All the more reason, surely, for an economics professor to explain to us why it's such a bad idea. He could be honest. He could stand up for his beliefs. He could...

Ach, he's just another politician, hoodwinking voters.


Based on one sound clip? Good for you! That's putting the blinkers on![/quote]Not just that. He once attacked the right wing for their positions against personal liberty (on abortion, gay marriage, gambling). Now he's going all pro-life and anti-freedom of movement. Classic grab for popularity.

Is he a Republican? I'm dubious. He spun it as furiously as Obama spins everything. In fact, it could have been the President writing that.
Nope, but I didn't say he was (I said what he was not). But still, did he misquote Brat?

I also know who Chuck Todd is. I guess Brat may have an idea, even with a bit of tiredness, that a former Democrat staffer and policy wonk would ask a question or two about policy. Besides, politics is not just about winning elections, it's about what you are winning them for.


Let me know if Brat loses.
He won't. It would take one of them miracle things for the Republicans to lose that district. But that doesn't detract from my point - winning is not the point of politics, it's what you do with it.

If all you see it as is a team sport with winning as the only goal, then no wonder you get disappointed even by your own side.

And do you really want a naif to end up in Congress? Mr Smith Goes to Washington (and The Distinguished Gentleman) are Hollywood creations. The reality is that you need politicians with a bit of nous.


We need them with a bit of honesty. Something that is lacking on both sides of the aisle.
Do you think that Brat is part of righting that balance? If so why could he not be honest about his position on the minimum wage? After all, it's not as if (according to you) anyone who matters in the Va-7 election would care what he said on MSNBC...
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Post 13 Jun 2014, 12:25 pm

danivon wrote:Do you think that Brat is part of righting that balance? If so why could he not be honest about his position on the minimum wage? After all, it's not as if (according to you) anyone who matters in the Va-7 election would care what he said on MSNBC...


I have no idea, although I don't think he was dishonest--as you seem to. The odds are probably about 10-1 that he wins the district (inow, he's heavily favored).

If you want to say the MSNBC thing makes him unfit for office, it's your right. However, neither you nor I will vote. And, I suspect you're likely to be disappointed. That breaks my heart.