If the Palestinians were given a land (Gaza and part of the West Bank), would that solve their "sore"?

bbauska wrote:If the Palestinians were given a land (Gaza and part of the West Bank), would that solve their "sore"?

I think you know better. They want Jerusalem. They want "the right to return." Ultimately, they, and most of the Muslims in the region, want things the way they were before 1948.

I think you're right RJ and literally the sentence says occupation of Palestine.

I do know better, and others should as well. They are not happy having Israel in the Middle East at all. If offered Gaza and the West Bank, that would not be good enough. Therefore, the negotiations are not in good faith.

Well, East Jerusalem is counted as being occupied, as it was on the other side of the Green Line but has since been incorporated (unilaterally) by Israel. The bulk of the population there are Muslim, although with the development of surrounding settlements, that is changing.

Anyway, is this thread about Israel or about Iran?

Yes it is about Iran but it does not seem very moderate if Rouhani meant that Israel's occupation of Israel itself is a wound on the Muslim world... If he said that the occupation of the occupied territories since 1967 was a wound, fine. But if Israel itself is the wound, well, that is not moderate....

ray

Sure we can have talks, but let's not fool ourselves that this regime can change.

Find one person who predicted the sudden demise of Communism in the Soviet Union. Or even the demise of Communisim across Eastern Europe. Find one person who could have predicted the sudden events described as the Arab Spring...
Iran shares many of the conditions of nations that have under gone sudden change in the past...
There is an educated middle class yesrning for more liberal institutions, There is general resentment over economic conditions. And there is a small brittle elite that maintains the status quo becasue it benefits them. (In Iran they are religionists .)
Maybe the regime can't change... But the nation can rid itself of the regime as dozens of others have ..
But even if it did, it probably won't change the average Iranians opinion of the Isrealis occupation of Palestine..

freeman3 wrote:Yes it is about Iran but it does not seem very moderate if Rouhani meant that Israel's occupation of Israel itself is a wound on the Muslim world... If he said that the occupation of the occupied territories since 1967 was a wound, fine. But if Israel itself is the wound, well, that is not moderate....

Well, we can spend ages as amateur Kremlinologists trying to interpret a translation of 'occupation'...

...or we can look at what actually happens as he takes on the role of President

I still haven't seen substantiation of the accusation that Rouhani said it in front of banners with 'Death to America' and/or 'Death to Israel' on them. DF, RJ - got any evidence?

danivon wrote:I still haven't seen substantiation of the accusation that Rouhani said it in front of banners with 'Death to America' and/or 'Death to Israel' on them. DF, RJ - got any evidence?

If he's a reformer, then he ought to be reforming, right?

I eagerly await his bold new initiatives. Please wake me when they arrive.

Doctor Fate wrote:If he's a reformer, then he ought to be reforming, right?

I eagerly await his bold new initiatives. Please wake me when they arrive.

It was his inauguration a week ago. His cabinet has yet to be approved by the parliament.

No-one ever said that reform would be quick, and it may not be in your view 'bold' enough even if it does come. I'm not convinced that it will happen. But I am prepared to wait and see, and not pooh-pooh it beforehand.

Ricky:

ray


Sure we can have talks, but let's not fool ourselves that this regime can change.


Find one person who predicted the sudden demise of Communism in the Soviet Union. Or even the demise of Communisim across Eastern Europe. Find one person who could have predicted the sudden events described as the Arab Spring...
Iran shares many of the conditions of nations that have under gone sudden change in the past...
There is an educated middle class yesrning for more liberal institutions, There is general resentment over economic conditions. And there is a small brittle elite that maintains the status quo becasue it benefits them. (In Iran they are religionists .)
Maybe the regime can't change... But the nation can rid itself of the regime as dozens of others have ..

That's all very interesting, but you are essentially agreeing with my comment, right?

Ricky:

But even if it did, it probably won't change the average Iranians opinion of the Isrealis occupation of Palestine..

Before you can ask that question, I think you have to define the territory of Palestine. If you mean the West Bank, I agree with you. As it is formulated now in Iran it is a very extreme statement.

danivon wrote:
I still haven't seen substantiation of the accusation that Rouhani said it in front of banners with 'Death to America' and/or 'Death to Israel' on them. DF, RJ - got any evidence?

I see death to Israel signs in the background here.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/0 ... rael/?_r=0

Ray Jay wrote:Ricky:

But even if it did, it probably won't change the average Iranians opinion of the Isrealis occupation of Palestine..

Before you can ask that question, I think you have to define the territory of Palestine. If you mean the West Bank, I agree with you. As it is formulated now in Iran it is a very extreme statement.

Exactly why I stated above...

ray

Before you can ask that question, I think you have to define the territory of Palestine. If you mean the West Bank, I agree with you. As it is formulated now in Iran it is a very extreme statement.

The noise from outside Palestine is mostly cheerleading and serves as a distraction for the leaders of those nations (including iran) from their poor domestic records. Its meaningless as a component of the Palestinian Israel process,
Iranians, and the Arab world will accept a solutuion that Palestinians call fair.
And Palestinians will accept a solution that ends the daily humiliations that the current occupation provides. Plus land that provides them a contiguous workable nation, rather than the current patchwork. The land for prisoners trade announced today is an indication of this ....perhaps.