Not all of Islam is at fault, I have said that before. I would hope you agree that that there has been quite an increase in Islamic Jihad based attacks and threats.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world/americas/canada-terror-plot-thwarted/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

How about this one RickyP. It is in your backyard. More non-Islamic Jihad from extremists of an un-named religious group? What do you make of it?

bbauska

How about this one RickyP. It is in your backyard. More non-Islamic Jihad from extremists of an un-named religious group? What do you make of it?

The reason that these fellows were captured, was that a year ago the imam at their mosque went to the RCMP and told the RCMP that they were dangerous....They were surveilled since then...

What does that tell you about Islam and the clergy in Islam? Is this imam typical or atypical?
Does this make Islam a religion of peace because of the act of one Imam? Or are there perhaps thousands out ehre also willing to act the same way, and perhaps doing so since its unlikely this kind of news gets out unless the suspects are arrested or act... (Or in the case of Tsarnev's Imam tossed him from the Mosque for his out rageous comments.. )
Since the headlines today are that the two in Boston acted alone without aid or influence from any specific group - it seems to indicate that they are more Columbine than 9/11.
That is, through their own tortured logic they came up with a reason to commit terror. Just like so many young men with alienation and disassociation issues..

I applaud the Iman. Are the would-be terrorists doing the attack for Islam? (just like Tsarnaev)

dag

1. It has no leadership.
2. It has no grass roots movement to rid itself of extemism.
3. I'm tired of excuses being made for this religion such as Islam is a beautiful religion but extremists have hijacked it tenants for political purposes.
4. It's treatment of women as second class citzens or worse is misogynistic and deplorable.
5. It's literal interpretations of the Koran are juvenile and irresponsible.
6. Almost everytime a bombing takes place somewhere in the world and a Muslim is the perpetrator I hear the following pattern of responses, namely

:
In response ....

1. Neither do most other major religions. Protestants, and jews are organized in their churches much like the Sunnis Islam. Catholics have central authority. So what. This feature didn't stop the Catholic Churches crimes for centuries....nor reform its misogyny today. Or stop sex crimes...
2. I think that the number of Imams who work with authorities when they suspect a person is probably higher than you suspect... Witness the events in Canada yesterday . I think you might also avail yourself of some searches for comments from the moderates... unfortunately they aren't particularly newsworthy. So they don't get covered. Well not by Cable news or the NY Post.
By the way, few people suspect the crazies who decide to go shoot up a mall or bomb a street. Notice how many people who are interviewed about their acquantences who have committed these crimes who say "I never suspected..." These crazies hide in plain sight...
3. So. Doesn't make the statement untrue.
4. I generally agree. However, Misogony is common amongst the Abrahmic religions and Hinduism. (I don't know much about Bhuddists). religion has been used to hold back women forever. The enlightenment has taken many hundreds of years to get to a point in the western world where women are closing in on equality.In many countries they still don't control their own bodies. Its the religiously conservative in every soceity who continue to hold them back. So, blame religion as a whole for this...
5. I agree. So are literal interpretations of the Bible. (Literalism in Christianity is largely an American invention by the way. ) Literal interpretations are usually hard to maintain in countries with a well educated populace...... Teach children to think critically and it doesn't last. Critical thinking is not encouraged in conservative Madrasses..so it thrives. Its apparently discouraged in Texas schools too.
6. I suppose thats true, since most of the bombings are in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan ....heavily Muslim countries... Most of the drone attacks too.... There's conflict going on in these regions...
However terror isn't a huge threat to Americans. Since 1972 there;s only been about 3600 deaths in the US due to terror attacks. In the same period almost 900,000 Americans have died due to gun violence... (Quoting Jon Strwart on Today Show from April 18)
I don't know how you differentiate between school shootings, mall shootings, theatre shootins etc and what you want to call terror. I see virtually no difference between Columbine and Boston. No difference between Oklahoma and Boston.

Its seems pretty easy to rile up Americans to do something substantive about terror. But not so much gun violence. I suspect because one can appeal to the tribal instinct. Its Them Muslims at fault, as oppossed to Us at fault. (Pogo was right. we have met the enemy and he is us)
The problem I have with the tone of your comment Dag is that it reverts to tribalism. Islam has its problems, but they are tied up with a lot of other issues as well. So its a little too complex to say, Its all Islams fault.
(Sorry if my spellings off. No spell check on the hotels computer)

Changing the topic again? (Gun violence is worse?)
Nothing said changes the issue, most terrorism today stems from Islam.
That is not to all Muslims are bad ...the overwhelming majority are good and decent people. But the terrorists do come from these same ranks and to ignore that FACT is to ignore common sense. Muslim leaders in the west are reporting these cases, as they should! But how many report it outside the western world? How many actually support such teachings? and this spills over to the west of course. We need to focus our attention on the Muslim ranks, it may sound like stereotyping but we have to get over being PC and concentrate on results, results that save lives vs stepping on toes that make some feel uncomfortable.

Rickyp,

I enjoyed readying your comments and thankyou. I disagree with a fair amount of what you've laid forth, especially the bit about literal interpretations of scripture being an American invention. Wow. You and I are reading very different histories of Europe.

Anyway Rickyp, if I have a central complaint against mainstream Islam it is this...

Mainstream Islam does NOT act to reform itself of its hijacked religion. There are very few if any leaders, heroes, Islamic authors, go to Islamic organizations, Islamic NGOs etc, taking a stand, demanding the kinds of reforms needed to make an impact. Just silence. That's what makes me sick.

Why is mainstream Islam silent? My guess is two-fold. Either it's because of 1. fear of retribution from other Muslim extremists or 2. acquiescence.

dag

I disagree with a fair amount of what you've laid forth, especially the bit about literal interpretations of scripture being an American invention

I should have said "reinvention". Literal interpretation of the Bible was standard to the 15th Century... But the enlightenment, and the scientific process undermined that... and a literal interpretation of the Bible became exceptional and rare in Europe by the 20th century.
It was largely the American Fundamentalist movement that revived the notion that the Bible was literal and inerrant.

dag

Mainstream Islam does NOT act to reform itself of its hijacked religion. There are very few if any leaders, heroes, Islamic authors, go to Islamic organizations, Islamic NGOs etc, taking a stand, demanding the kinds of reforms needed to make an impact. Just silence. That's what makes me sick.

I don't think you are looking very hard for the voices that are opposed to the extremists.
And I doubt, unless you seek them out through the Internet, or at a mosque, that you'll be exposed to these voices in mainstream American Media. Peacemakers rarely make headlines.
Maybe if you subscribe to Al Jazeera?
When I google Islamic leaders condemning terror I get stuff like the above...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_att ... _terrorism

Yet this reasoning ignores those who do support terrorism and extremism. The middle east is chocked full of those who actively preach killing infidels and encouraging the young to become suicide bombers. Ricky would have us ignore those large numbers who embrace this stuff while focusing only on those who oppose it. Yes, some, MANY Muslims oppose terrorism, few if any suggest ALL Muslims are bad, I will grant you that the majority are fine and decent folks. But we can't ignore the simple fact that most terrorists come from radicalized Islam. Not all terrorists come from Islamic backgrounds, not all Muslims support terrorism but where are the majority coming from??? Are we to ignore this breeding ground because it's not politically correct to look extra close at those who come from similar backgrounds?

Yada yada yada Tom.

Fareed Zakkaria makes the point this morning in the Washington Post.

As we learn more about the brothers Tsarnaev, we are inclined to ask larger questions about their apparent descent into terror. What does it tell us about radical Islam, Russian immigrants, Muslim communities and the breakdown of assimilation? The most accurate answer might turn out to be: not much. Larger phenomena might be at work — but these two young men might not reflect any rise or intensification of trends. It seems they are just two alienated youths who turned toward hate and then, allegedly, to murder.
That was the point the brothers’ uncle Ruslan Tsarni made when he called his nephews “losers.” He was arguing against the notion that the boys represented a larger community. He and his family, after all, were part of the same Chechen migration to the United States and are well-adjusted, law-abiding and thoroughly American.
Since 9/11, foreign-inspired terrorism has claimed about two dozen lives in the United States. (Meanwhile, more than 100,000 have been killed in gun homicides and more than 400,000 in motor-vehicle accidents.) One crucial reason the number of terrorism deaths is so low is that America does not have large pools of alienated immigrants. Polls repeatedly have shown that Muslim immigrants to the United States embrace core American values. The American assimilation machine continues to function well

.

If you look for the areas where there is a lot of terror, and much conducted by Muslim extremists, in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan Somalia, you have not just alienated but desperately angry and disaffected youth. Extremists prey upon the angry young men in those regions for their own political gain. That they use Islam as a tool is not surprising. religion has always been a great tool to enrage one tribe against another...

and these terrorists in Boston?
...Muslim

the terrorists foiled in Toronto the other day
...Muslim

angry disaffected youth in the middle east? We do need to pay close attention to Islamic society even at home, to ignore them because it would be politically incorrect, are you serious? If you are Muslim, you are most certainly not guilty of anything and you are quite probably a good and decent person, but you should expect to have people looking over your shoulder no doubt! What is wrong with this line of thinking or line of procedure?

check the list of terrorist attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... _incidents
almost every single one has radical Islam at it's roots, again, I can rattle off more than ten (or more) Muslim rooted reasons for every non-Muslim attack. Again, I am not saying Muslim = Bad, far far far from it!

I think it's accepted now that this rant from Bill Cosby was not penned by him. However, some of the points concerning Islam are worth considering...

“I’m 83 and I’m Tired” by Bill Cosby?

I’m 83. Except for brief period in the 50′s when I was doing my National
Service, I’ve worked hardsince I was 17. Except for some some serious
health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn’t call in sick in nearly
40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn’t inherit my job or my
income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as
though retirement was a bad idea, and I’m tired. Very tired.

I’m tiredof being told that I have to “spread the wealth” to people who
don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take
the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy
to earn it.

I’m tiredof being told I must lower my living standard to fight global
warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I’m tiredof being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help
support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ
rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses
or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?

I’m tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all
parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful
mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting
caught. I’m tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

I’m really tired of people who don’t take responsibility for their lives and
actions. I’m tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination
or big-whatever for their problems.

I’m also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and
early 20′s be-deck them selves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making
themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government.

Yes, I’m damn tired. But I’m also glad to be 83.. Because, mostly, I’m not
going to have to see the world these people are making.. I’m just sorry for
my granddaughter and her children. Thank God I’m on the way out and not
on the way in.

What part of that rant you copied and pasted was about Islam? Looks more like an old dude moaning about the youth of today (and the misanthropy shines through at the end). As it's a trope as old as time, I'm a little 'tired' of it.

I have seen other versions and checked it out on snopes, and it is very clear that Bill Cosby not only never wrote or said it, but that he has publicly condemned it.

Thank you for pointing that out. I somehow posted the quote without the bit on Islam

Here it is again. Whoever wrote it makes some worthwhile points.

"I'm 76 and I'm Tired" by Bill Cosby [ or not ]

I'm 76. Except for brief period in the 50's when I was doing my National Service, I've worked hard since I was 17. Except for some serious health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn't call in sick in nearly 40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as though retirement was a bad idea, and I'm tired. Very tired.

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it.

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honour"; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to. I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques and mandrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia, New Zealand, UK, America and Canada, while no one from these countries are allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other Arab country to teach love and tolerance.

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

I'm really tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and actions I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems.

I'm also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and early 20's bedeck themselves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government.

Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 76.. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter and her children. Thank God I'm on the way out and not on the way in.

Yep, plenty of BS there. FGM is not in the Quran or in the vast majority of Shariat. Your country has not just 'tolerance' but a Constitutional proscription on treating religions differently. When you buy oil from abroad, that oil money ceases to be yours and becomes theirs to do what they want. And there are plenty of churches in Arab countries.

The salient points appear to be outweighed by ignorance and bigotry.