Obamacare is not what I was talking about. It's not universal, and it doesn't move the problem on from employers.

On Orange County, it's interesting that Citron was the only Democrat in any post, and that (according to another bit of Wikipedia):

Orange County was at the time the largest US county to have gone bankrupt, when in 1994 longtime treasurer Robert Citron's investment strategies left the county with inadequate capital to allow for any raise in interest rates for its trading positions. When the conservative residents of Orange County voted down a proposal to raise taxes in order to balance the budget, bankruptcy followed soon after.

Essentially the issue stemmed from a reluctance to pay taxes to cover spending, and one guy having a (dumb) idea on how to deal with it. If taxes had been palatable as a means of covering the County's costs, creative ideas involving leveraging bonds would not have been likely considered.

I guess that the County residents ended up paying for it somehow in the end.

rickyp wrote:I think I am aware of the pension and health care issue. I just don't think that this is the singular reason the education budget got to be 52% of the state budget. If it is, what is the fix? (And I quoted the actual California tax rates, so i know those too.)

Well, I can tell you that for my local school district (Neshaminy School District, which is locked in a protracted 4 year contract dispute) payroll costs accounts for approximately 80% of the district's budget.

danivon wrote:Essentially the issue stemmed from a reluctance to pay taxes to cover spending, and one guy having a (dumb) idea on how to deal with it. If taxes had been palatable as a means of covering the County's costs, creative ideas involving leveraging bonds would not have been likely considered.

That's one rationalization. However, if I was in his position and saw revenues were not sufficient to provide current or enhanced levels of service, I don't think my answer would have been, in essence, "I'm going to Vegas!"

That's a complete failure with regard to his fiduciary responsibility.

I guess that the County residents ended up paying for it somehow in the end.

Yes, paying for the rambling, gambling man.

Now, consider if he had done the right thing. The County would have been faced with a decision. They could have refused to raise taxes and the net result would have been a reduction in services, but not bankruptcy.

He took a sad song and made it sadder.

arch

Well, I can tell you that for my local school district (Neshaminy School District, which is locked in a protracted 4 year contract dispute) payroll costs accounts for approximately 80% of the district's budget.

I have a feeling thats largely true of school systems everywhere, that the teaching talent is the greatest expense by far...

Is the portion of this in Neshaminy that is counted as benefits (pension and health care) as high as California (37%)?
Thats the part that I find appalling in California...

It's this kind of garbage that is going to bury the President this fall:

Remember when Obama was railing on about "the tax-break for corporate jets," during the debt-ceiling fights of 2011? He repeatedly invoked this "tax break," which was really about how some corporate jets were depreciated over five years instead of seven. The message was clear: Republicans are in bed with corporate-jet owners. His loyal legions on the Left joined the chant.

But today, Obama's export-subsidy chief promised a billion dollars in taxpayer-backed subsidies for corporate jets, according to Bloomberg News.

Fred Hochberg heads the Export-Import Bank, a federal agency that subsidizes U.S. exports by loaning money or guaranteeing loans to foreign buyers of U.S. goods. Bloomberg reports:

The President has consistently gone after boogeymen. This is one that was pernicious, but now is perfectly fine. Again, this is not "leadership."

The American people don't need to reelect the Great Divider and they won't.

rickyp wrote:Is the portion of this in Neshaminy that is counted as benefits (pension and health care) as high as California (37%)?
Thats the part that I find appalling in California...

I do not know off the top of my head. I will try to find out though

A large part of California's budget is non-discretionary because of the referendum process. Voters constantly are asked to approve various bond measures (particularly for education). So when a recession hits and you have the requirement to balance the state budget, and you cannot cut funding for the numerous bond measures approved by voters, you are faced with almost impossible decisions to just gut discretioary programs. There are systemic problems with the budget that are not related to being tax happy, but simply have to do with the difficulty of dealing with low tax revenues during recession combined with a lack of discretion to make small cuts in a large number of probems, but rather being forced to make rather large custs in a small number of programs.,But, considering that we would be in the top 8 GDP if we were a country, I wouldn't crow too much about it if I were another (Red) state.,

But, considering that we would be in the top 8 GDP if we were a country, I wouldn't crow too much about it if I were another (Red) state.,

I wouldn't be too smug about it. I've been criticizing from a fellow blue state perspective and intentionally did not compare you to let's say Texas. Mass., CT, NY, NJ are all blue states which have relatively (as compared to other US states) high taxes, but not the situation of CA. Given your natural advantages of climate, geography, software industry, entertainment industry, you guys shouldn't be heading off a fiscal cliff. If your income tax rates go to over 13%, you may hear a giant sucking sound. I know that MA biotech and software people are looking at this as an opportunity. The founders of Facebook effectively gave up billions of dollars for your sunshine. I wouldn't bet that the next Facebook will do the same.

In any case, it is all a good experiment about democracy and liberalism.

freeman2 wrote:A large part of California's budget is non-discretionary because of the referendum process.

Fine, but Democrats know that, right? No one forces them to run for office, right?

Prop 13 passed in the 70's. Maybe it's time to stop blaming it and to look at how to work within those parameters?

Voters constantly are asked to approve various bond measures (particularly for education). So when a recession hits and you have the requirement to balance the state budget, and you cannot cut funding for the numerous bond measures approved by voters, you are faced with almost impossible decisions to just gut discretioary programs.

Leadership would be explaining this to the electorate. The problem is that the bonds seem painless, so voters pass them all too often. Both sides have used bond measures to get their way. Maybe it's time to push an amendment to the Constitution to force bonds to pass by 2/3 vote? In the meantime, if draconian cuts must be made, then the governor will have to explain that. Instead, there are all manner of, believe it or not, propositions on the upcoming election to . . . raise taxes.

What liberals don't understand is a very basic premise of de Tocqueville, "A democratic government is the only one in which those who vote for a tax can escape the obligation to pay it." California, and many other blue States, have reached a critical mass. More than 50% will vote for anything "positive" because it's "free," meaning "free for them." It is human nature to vote for "free" stuff. It is only when one understands that "government" is not an independent resources, but a collective entity from whom "free" is extracted that one becomes a conservative.

But, considering that we would be in the top 8 GDP if we were a country, I wouldn't crow too much about it if I were another (Red) state.,

I think it's just sad. There is no reason for California to be broke, other than failed political leadership.

As RJ points out, many companies have fled CA for Texas and other States. Not only are the taxes high, but the regulatory regime is almost as bad as MA. Yours is a State that consistently puts presumed threats to tiny animals in front of people. The most glaring example is the Delta Smelt. For its benefit, tens of thousands of people have been made jobless and farms have been shut down. There are many examples. Imagine what CA could do with all the revenue from offshore oil.

Barring a remarkable reversal, CA will increasingly be a State that loses opportunity and population to other States. Additionally, it will increasingly become a place where the very rich and the very poor grow in their importance as the middle class flees.

How about honesty?

According to the President, Bill Ayers was just a guy in the neighborhood. Hmm . . .

As a presidential candidate in 2008, Barack Obama disavowed any connection with former domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, the Weather Underground radical who was one of Obama's early backers and his colleague on the board of the Woods Fund in Chicago. We now have proof that Obama's association with Ayers continued even after Obama had been elected to represent Illinois in the U.S. Senate--in the form of a now-scrubbed blog post placing Obama at the home of Ayers and his wife, fellow radical Bernadine Dohrn, on July 4, 2005.

If Ayers is no big deal, why lie?

Winning a renewed mandate after massively outspending his opponent? I rather think that's what Obama hopes to do in November. If he does, will it quieten down the whining from dexter?

danivon wrote:Winning a renewed mandate after massively outspending his opponent? I rather think that's what Obama hopes to do in November. If he does, will it quieten down the whining from dexter?

Unions spent $21M. How much did Walker spend?

In any event, he earned a bigger win than his original election in a State that Obama won handily by running explicitly on his accomplishments. All of his policies run counter to Obama's. If that is supposed to help the President, please explain how.

Also, how would you compare Walker's standing on his record with Obama's reelection campaign?

Walker spent over $30m.

I think Randy that in order for Walker to show leadership he first has to cut those puppet strings that the Koch brothers are using to manipulate him...Such leadership in doing what the people who have the money want you to do. The courage it takes to stand up to the poor to help out the suffering rich people--it moves one to tears.