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Post 30 Apr 2015, 1:28 pm

geojanes wrote: No way Hillary Clinton is the next president of the USA.


There are two ways:

1. Jeb is the GOP nominee. The base he so disdains stays home.
2. The GOP nominee does something incredibly stupid (worse than the 47% comment of Romney).

Inherent in both of these is the calculation that Hillary manages to keep a very large gender gap. She might--the "excitement" of electing the first woman might be too much for ill-informed women. Some might think, "Corruption? So what? All politicians are crooks."

I think Rubio could defeat Hillary.

The problem, I think, for the Democrats is that they've invested so much in Hillary that no one else has a chance at the nomination.

I mean, really, who else is there?
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Post 30 Apr 2015, 2:01 pm

Doctor Fate wrote:
geojanes wrote: No way Hillary Clinton is the next president of the USA.


There are two ways:

1. Jeb is the GOP nominee. The base he so disdains stays home.
2. The GOP nominee does something incredibly stupid (worse than the 47% comment of Romney).

Inherent in both of these is the calculation that Hillary manages to keep a very large gender gap. She might--the "excitement" of electing the first woman might be too much for ill-informed women. Some might think, "Corruption? So what? All politicians are crooks."

I think Rubio could defeat Hillary.

The problem, I think, for the Democrats is that they've invested so much in Hillary that no one else has a chance at the nomination.

I mean, really, who else is there?


I disagree, I think the base would come out for Jeb if Hillary was the Democratic nominee. I mean, she is a pretty polarizing figure, some number of people just simply want to vote against her regardless of who they are voting for.

You may be right about the "who else is there." But I recall that most of us didn't really know who Barack Obama was in 2007. It's still pretty early. Someone may emerge.
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Post 30 Apr 2015, 2:16 pm

Nobody knew who Sarah Palin was before she got picked as McCain's VP candidate. It was an utterly leftfield selection and I'm willing to bet that even McCain himself didn't really know much about her. Granted, this didn't really work out so well, but it's an example of how a profile can be built from scratch in a very short period of time.
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Post 30 Apr 2015, 2:17 pm

The thing about president...is that it is too important a position to overly worry about things that are not going to relate to job performance. Sure I would vote for Bernie Sanders but he has no chance. I am going to vote for the person who in my opinion is going to make America a better place as compared to the alternatives. With Biden not being viable and no one else on the horizon it's Hillary or Jeb Bush or someone far worse. I could tolerate Jeb as president (I wouldn't vote for him of course) but that's about it from the Republican side. Probably DF has about the same amount of enthusiasm for Jeb, so maybe that makes him a good candidate. He seems to be a decent guy, without the smirking arrogance of his brother. These tangential character swipes at Hillary Clinton because of a foundation which seems to be driven mostly by Bill Clinton don't mean a heck of a lot to me. I don't know why the Foundation doesn't pay interns, but I know she'll better for American workers than any Republican candidate.

Whatever their character flaws the Clintons have done a huge amount of good for America. And I do believe that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for the America I want. And of course Republicans know she is the only viable Democratic candidate so they are going to throw as much mud as they can at her. That just means she poses a threat to them. Just like Bill Clinton was a threat to them and they had Kenneth Starr investigate him for his entire presidency. Don't be distracted by the Republican war machine, George! Unless you want Ted Cruz as your president...

By the way, Obama was a rising star since he gave that speech at the Convention in 2004. I see no up-and-comer of comparable stature in the Democratic Party right now. But Jeb might draw some moderate Ddmocratic voters away from Hillary, I agree with that. But Jeb first has to get through the Republican convention and he will have a tough time there as he won't be what conservatives want
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Post 30 Apr 2015, 6:19 pm

What good things did Mrs. Clinton do? I know Mr. Clinton did a few things, but we are not electing the former POTUS.

I would like to know what Mrs. Clinton did that was good in her tenure as Senator or Sec. of State. RickyP says Chelsea was in charge of the Clinton Foundation, so apparently that doesn't count (in RickyPs eyes at least).
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Post 01 May 2015, 5:54 am

WHo Runs the Foundation?
Bruce Lindsay is Chairman of the Board, and Chelsea is Vice-Chair
Bill Clinton is a board member but Hillary is no where on the management structure.
Frank Giustra is a board member...so its small wonder that money came from Uranium One to the Clinton Foundation...

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/board-directors

Leadership Team as of January 2015

MAURA PALLY, ACTING CEO AND SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, WOMEN AND YOUTH PROGRAMS
ANDREW KESSEL, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER
VALERIE ALEXANDER, CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER
SCOTT CURRAN, GENERAL COUNSEL
AMITABH DESAI, FOREIGN POLICY DIRECTOR
RAIN HENDERSON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON HEALTH MATTERS INITIATIVE
MARK GUNTON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON GIUSTRA ENTERPRISE PARTNERSHIP
ROBERT HARRISON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE
BARI LURIE, CHIEF OF STAFF, OFFICE OF CHELSEA CLINTON
TERRI MCCULLOUGH, DIRECTOR, NO CEILINGS: THE FULL PARTICIPATION PROJECT
PATTI MILLER, DIRECTOR, TOO SMALL TO FAIL
CRAIG MINASSIAN, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER
WALKER MORRIS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVE
STEPHANIE S. STREETT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
DYMPHNA VAN DER LANS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON CLIMATE INITIATIVE
Leaders of Affiliated Entities

IRA MAGAZINER, VICE CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON HEALTH ACCESS INITIATIVE
DR. HOWELL WECHSLER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ALLIANCE FOR A HEALTHIER GENERATION
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Post 01 May 2015, 6:00 am

rickyp wrote:WHo Runs the Foundation?
Bruce Lindsay is Chairman of the Board, and Chelsea is Vice-Chair
Bill Clinton is a board member but Hillary is no where on the management structure.
Frank Giustra is a board member...so its small wonder that money came from Uranium One to the Clinton Foundation...

https://www.clintonfoundation.org/about/board-directors

Leadership Team as of January 2015

MAURA PALLY, ACTING CEO AND SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, WOMEN AND YOUTH PROGRAMS
ANDREW KESSEL, CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER
VALERIE ALEXANDER, CHIEF MARKETING OFFICER
SCOTT CURRAN, GENERAL COUNSEL
AMITABH DESAI, FOREIGN POLICY DIRECTOR
RAIN HENDERSON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON HEALTH MATTERS INITIATIVE
MARK GUNTON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON GIUSTRA ENTERPRISE PARTNERSHIP
ROBERT HARRISON, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE
BARI LURIE, CHIEF OF STAFF, OFFICE OF CHELSEA CLINTON
TERRI MCCULLOUGH, DIRECTOR, NO CEILINGS: THE FULL PARTICIPATION PROJECT
PATTI MILLER, DIRECTOR, TOO SMALL TO FAIL
CRAIG MINASSIAN, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER
WALKER MORRIS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON DEVELOPMENT INITIATIVE
STEPHANIE S. STREETT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
DYMPHNA VAN DER LANS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON CLIMATE INITIATIVE
Leaders of Affiliated Entities

IRA MAGAZINER, VICE CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CLINTON HEALTH ACCESS INITIATIVE
DR. HOWELL WECHSLER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ALLIANCE FOR A HEALTHIER GENERATION


Are you making any argument or are you simply posting random google searches? If the former, please learn how to make a coherent argument. If the latter, we don't need monkeys-at-keyboards searches.
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Post 01 May 2015, 6:03 am

freeman3
I don't know why the Foundation doesn't pay interns
,

As long as they keep Bill away from the interns...
Unpaid labor is something the Foundation should actually be fighting, not propagating.

If anything typified the mealy mouthed response that Hillary can utter, it was (as seen on the Daily Show) her response to a question about whether donors to the Foundation received anything from State while she was in office.
The answer should have been No.
Instead she went on to a 3 minute tirade complaining about the nature of scrutiny she received.
If Bernie does nothing else he talks straight and maybe that will help push Hillary in the right direction.
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Post 01 May 2015, 6:06 am

fate
Are you making any argument or are you simply posting random google searches?

I guess you need things spelled out for you ...

You seem to think that Hillary is responsible for the Foundation. If she doesn't run it, has little involvement in it, then that's a false line.
You seem to think that she is influenced by donations made to the Foundation. There's never been a shred of evidence that she has been influenced, just innuendo.
But even this innuendo has less credibility if she isn't involved in the Foundations management..
Does she even know when someone donates?
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Post 01 May 2015, 7:31 am

rickyp wrote:fate
Are you making any argument or are you simply posting random google searches?

I guess you need things spelled out for you ...


No, I wanted the ammunition to nail you for your typical nonsense. :)

You seem to think that Hillary is responsible for the Foundation. If she doesn't run it, has little involvement in it, then that's a false line.


Ah, and one I never posted.

However, that's not the standard. I will start with an example you will understand and then give you a couple of the problems Hillary has created for herself.

Let's say someone is in the military or CIA. His/her spouse begins taking money from foreign governments for contract work. Now, they were in the business before the person joined the CIA/military, but had not done work for these governments before. Would that be acceptable?

The answer is: it depends. However, such work would be scrutinized and cross-checked. Why? Because there "might" be a conflict of interest. There "might" be something of concern going on. And, it would lead to that CIA/military person losing (maybe temporarily, but potentially permanently) their clearance. Why? Because appearances matter!

Now, the Obama Administration recognized this principle when they appointed Hillary. She agreed to transparency rules. The Foundation did not adhere to those rules, thus the scrutiny.

In 2008, before Hillary Clinton became Obama's secretary of state, the Clinton Foundation and the Obama administration signed an agreement that outlined how the foundation would deal with conflict of interest questions but still be allowed to continue its philanthropic work.

One aspect of the agreement was that the Clinton Foundation would stop taking new foreign donations, except from those countries that had previously donated to the foundation and didn't increase their contributions.

The Algerian government aid was a one-time donation to help Haiti, the statement said, and the government had not donated to the foundation before or since.

The statement was prompted by a Washington Post​ story that reported "the Clinton Foundation accepted millions of dollars from seven foreign governments during Hillary Rodham Clinton's tenure as secretary of state," including the Algerian government donations that violated the agreement.

The other foreign governments that continued donating while Clinton was secretary of state, according to the Post, were Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Australia, Norway and the Dominican Republic. Some of this donations were multi-year grants for specific issues.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/26/politics/ ... index.html

Still don't buy it? How about if Bill himself sells it?

On July 11, 2012, at the London School of Economics, former President Bill Clinton discussed the annual Clinton Global Initiative meetings. In his speech, he said his foundation receiving foreign money to sponsor their meeting while wife, former first lady Hillary Clinton, was Secretary of State raised concerns of conflict of interest with “good reason.”

Clinton said, “We had one in Hong Kong for Asia which I had to suspend while Hillary was secretary of state, with good reason. In order to do one around the world and make the economics work and keep the entry fee fairly low, you have to have sponsors. And if your wife is secretary of state and you get sponsors in another country, they may be doing it just because they believe in it, but it opens up too many questions of conflict of interest. So we suspended those.”


rickyp wrote:You seem to think that she is influenced by donations made to the Foundation. There's never been a shred of evidence that she has been influenced, just innuendo.


"She's never been convicted! Vote for Hillary!"--potential bumper sticker?

Right now, I'd say it's more like there are an outbreak of coincidences. How many does it take to have an impact?

India:

The newly obtained chapter, titled “Indian Nukes: How to Win a Medal by Changing Hillary’s Mind,” details a series of donations and overtures from Indians who supported the nuclear deal to the Clintons, and points to one case of an Indian-American Clinton donor — who in April 2014 pleaded guilty in an illegal contribution scheme for Clinton’s 2008 run — receiving an award from the Indian government for his work in securing the agreement.

“In 1998 the Indian government conducted nuclear tests, Bill Clinton imposed restrictions on the export of U.S. nuclear technology, because this violated the nonproliferation treaty — Hillary Clinton supported that position,” Schweizer said Tuesday on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” outlining the chapter. “In 2005, the Indian government wanted those restrictions lifted. Hillary Clinton at that time supported a killer amendment to stop that from happening. After 2005, a number of Indian interests, including an Indian politician that admits now that his donation to the Clinton Foundation wasn’t even his money, those donations flowed. In 2008, she reverses course and supports the export of U.S. nuclear technology.”

While Clinton’s stance toward India evolved over the years, a review of then-Sen. Clinton’s statements and votes while the Indian nuclear deal was under debate shows that one of the key facts in Schweizer’s argument on the topic is false — Clinton actually publicly stated her support for the deal in 2006. Another is in dispute – Schweizer writes that Clinton voted to cap India’s fissile production, when she actually voted against a measure that did that, though she did support a weaker one that imposed some limits.

Schweizer, who wrote that Clinton voted for a “’killer amendment’ that would have effectively gutted the bill by capping India’s fissile production,” contends that the Clinton camp is trying to “blur” Clinton’s position. He says the “killer amendment” the book refers to is the one submitted by Sen. Russ Feingold that would have asked for Indian assurances that American nuclear fuel would not be used to increase fissile material production “in unsafeguarded nuclear facilities” – which Clinton did vote for. But as Feingold’s measure referred specifically to fissile material production within unsafeguarded facilities, it was less restrictive than the one proposed by Sen. Jeff Bingaman. Clinton voted against Bingaman’s measure, which would have mandated a presidential report stating that “India has stopped producing fissile materials for weapons pursuant to a unilateral or multilateral agreement.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/c ... z3YtiQLYMw


You lose.

Now, it's possible that each and every coincidence is not a big deal, entirely innocent. However, the fact that she is known to skirt the rules (see email violation) is not going to help her. It's not like Hillary is a paragon of honesty.

But even this innuendo has less credibility if she isn't involved in the Foundations management..
Does she even know when someone donates?


Ask her.

Oh, forgot: she doesn't answer to anyone unless they've been screened ahead of time.
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Post 01 May 2015, 8:10 am

RickyP,
You seem to have skipped over the first part of my question.

What has Hillary good things has Mrs. Clinton done as SoS or Senator? (Then I said she could not be using the foundation as something good as she is not a part of it. YOUR ASSERTION, btw)

Answer that. What country is better because of her as SoS? How did she benefit NY as Senator Clinton?
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Post 01 May 2015, 8:51 am

I don't know, that's a pretty tough standard you have there, Brad...what did Obama, McCain, Gore, Bush II, Bush I,Clinton, Dole, Mondale, Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Dukakis accomplish before they ran for office? They did stuff...like Hillary Clinton did stuff (in fact, probably her whole purpose in being senator was to be a springboard to run for president) but accomplishments? LBJ, Eisenhower, Truman and Roosevelt had prior accomplishments...recently, with regard to presidential candidates, not so much.
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Post 01 May 2015, 9:13 am

freeman3 wrote:I don't know, that's a pretty tough standard you have there, Brad...what did Obama, McCain, Gore, Bush II, Bush I,Clinton, Dole, Mondale, Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Dukakis accomplish before they ran for office? They did stuff...like Hillary Clinton did stuff (in fact, probably her whole purpose in being senator was to be a springboard to run for president) but accomplishments? LBJ, Eisenhower, Truman and Roosevelt had prior accomplishments...recently, with regard to presidential candidates, not so much.


Her record at State is brilliant!

. . . if you like games like "World in Flames."

Okay, maybe just "Middle East and Ukraine in Flames."
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Post 01 May 2015, 9:34 am

Obama - Not much of anything
Bush II - Texas budget surplus created of 2B
McCain - Military man, adoptive parent, strong on defense as a congressman
Dole - Military man, Hawkish against Communism
Bush I - Military man, voted for Civil Rights bill even though it was not liked in his district
Clinton - Reformed Arkansas education system, Death penalty proponent

Shall I continue?

Now answer my question about Mrs. Clinton.
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Post 01 May 2015, 10:01 am

bbauska wrote:McCain - Military man, adoptive parent, strong on defense as a congressman
Dole - Military man, Hawkish against Communism


Sells them both short. Both are war heroes, not mere members of the military.

Still, compared to Hoover, their political accomplishments were light. Then again, so were Lincoln's.

What bugs me is to hear about how "accomplished" or "ready" Hillary is. No, she's really not.