Join In On The Action "Register Here" To View The Forums

Already a Member Login Here

Board index Forum Index
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3646
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 13 Jul 2020, 12:42 pm

It also would seem prudent to do a mix of virtual and in-class instruction in order to get class sizes down. So if you have a 30 student class break them into thirds, with ten students going to school each day. So two days a week and every third week only one. I realize that would not solve parents' child care issues, but at least would give the kids some social interaction.
Last edited by freeman3 on 13 Jul 2020, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7374
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 13 Jul 2020, 12:45 pm

As a home schooler, I have seen no difference... :angel:
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3646
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 13 Jul 2020, 12:59 pm

:smile:
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 13 Jul 2020, 1:55 pm

freeman3
But if the virus is less harmful during the summer...we got 1.5, maybe 2.5 months to get the virus under control or we are going to get hit with a coronavirus tsumani in the fall..


There were 66,000 new cases yesterday in the US. Thats a tsunami.
At the current epidemiological rates in the US of those 66,000 it is estimated that:
2,640 will die.
5,500 will suffer major long term damage to their lungs, heart and other organs portending a shorter life.
Over 8,000 more will forever have some impairment to their lungs...

When 3,000 people died on 9/11 the US went nuts. People accepted enormous infringements on liberty through the Patriot Act and restriction on freedom of movement. The nation went to two wars.
Covid 19 hits and for half the population wearing face masks in public areas becomes too big an imposition, too big a restriction on liberty. Its hard to fathom why the reaction is so different. Why isn't it patriotic to wear a face mask?

Freeman, if my metric conversion is right its 115 in Arizona and Florida. Heat sure hasn't slowed the infection rate nor the hospitalization rate. Its only wishful thinking to consider that the mortality rate will go down.
The Italians have gotten their infection rate to about 10 new cases a day per hundred thousand people. Since they finally managed to protect the aged population through aggressive quarantine, their death rate (which was over 15% of infected initially) has plummeted.
The US new daily infection rate is 180 per 100,000 population. (reported infections, meaning people are seeking medical assistance for symptoms) . You aren't in a second wave. This is still the first wave. Its a tsunami now.
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3646
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 13 Jul 2020, 3:54 pm

Well, Florida and Arizona are pretty darn hot so the virus clearly does not go away due to hot weather. But deaths are not nearly like they were early on. That could be due to younger patients, lag time, or better treatment. But it could also be that the virus is slightly less harmful during the summer, if it acts like other coronaviruses. I am not minimizing the situation--it's bad right now--but it could be really bad once summer is over.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3486
Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

Post 14 Jul 2020, 9:58 am

freeman3 wrote:Well, Florida and Arizona are pretty darn hot so the virus clearly does not go away due to hot weather. But deaths are not nearly like they were early on. That could be due to younger patients, lag time, or better treatment. But it could also be that the virus is slightly less harmful during the summer, if it acts like other coronaviruses. I am not minimizing the situation--it's bad right now--but it could be really bad once summer is over.


Brazil is always hot. The state of Amazonas is worst hit and that's on the equator. Middle east also bad. Not sure about the seasonality evidence. Maybe it would be seasonal if people didn't use air conditioning . . .
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 16 Jul 2020, 9:20 am

In Canada Covid is largely in check and most of Canada is reopening slowly. (We've been eating on restaurant patios for a couple weeks now) However there is one big issue that remains to be dealt with... reopening schools. The current struggles we're having include
- how to achieve social distancing and mask wearing...
- how to deal with contact tracing and policies upon finding a positive test of a student, teacher or family member...

To be fair I think the public health officials have a protocol in place for the second issue. And there is no doubt that if a public health official made a call, that protocol would be followed to the letter. I just don't think all parents know the protocol yet.
The first issue is a huge problem. When you've built schools for a certain density and now you need it to be half as much... there's an enormous problem. And apparently no immediate or easy answers. There's only so much room in the gymnasium or library or common area....
And yet, for the economy to bounce back - school opening is essential. Most families have both parents working. And school serves the purpose of day care for these parents....

In Canada we have 6 or 7 weeks till school opens. I'm pretty sure there will be an opening and some kind of in person attendance. Perhaps with older students doing some courses online for part of their courses...

I understand in the US they open in only 3 weeks in many States?
And yet, the pandemic is uncontrolled, there is a fair sized rebellion against public health requirements like mask wearing, and funding is hugely disproportionate between school districts due to funding coming primarily from local taxation.
Based on an interview I saw on CNN with Betsy Devos, there is no clear national standard - and no national guidance other than a requirement to open...
Are schools going to open? Successfully? Everywhere ?
How?
Is this going to be a final nail in Trumps electoral coffin if it doesn't go well?
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 16 Jul 2020, 9:38 am

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/cor ... 222f25e0d7

So now the White House is going to control all the information on Covid 19?
A little more like Russia every day.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7374
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 16 Jul 2020, 10:21 am

I am all for choice in people/business making decisions on mask wearing, business and school openings.

Choice... Hmmm, what a novel idea.

If you want to wear a mask wear one. If not, don't.
If you want your business to allow customers w/o masks, then great. If not, then don't.
If the school wants to be open, but require masks, great. Just leave it up to the parents to decide on attendance within the school policies.

It is a freedom issue. People should have the right to do as they choose within the scope of the requirements a business puts on them. If a business chooses to not serve someone because of what they believe, I am fine with that. If you don't like the business' choices, don't shop there.
User avatar
Adjutant
 
Posts: 3646
Joined: 17 May 2013, 3:32 pm

Post 16 Jul 2020, 11:27 am

Are you also for freedom of choice as to having the right to drink as much as you want and drive, having the freedom to own machine guns, tanks, nuclear weapons? On mask wearing, reopening of schools, whether businesses require masks or not....someone has to make the call on the rules we must follow for the betterment of all. If you dont like the calls they make then vote them out of office.

But allowing people to make whatever decisions they want during a pandemic about wearing masks, social distancing, how businesses operate...that's not freedom, that's anarchy. That kind of thinking has us with a far worse coronoavirus problem than any other advanced western country. We need someone to make the call on the safety rules in place to deal with this virus...and people need to follow them. That's how other countries have dealt effectively with the virus.

Is that how things were done in the military, Brad? When you gave an order...were you ok with a crew member giving his opinion on it? No, of course not. They just did it. And thats how we have to be with dealing with the virus. And if some people dont like they it they can try to get the rules changed. Until then, follow the rules...or be willing to pay the consequences.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 16 Jul 2020, 11:53 am

Mask wearing has two effects.(Done properly)
1) It probably stops you infecting others. . Infectious disease experts say this closes in on 99% effective.
2) Lowers the chance of others infecting you.

So when someone chooses not to wear a mask they are saying
I don't care if I infect you .....

I don't think freedom of choice should include the freedom to choose to infect other people.
User avatar
Dignitary
 
Posts: 3486
Joined: 02 Oct 2000, 9:01 am

Post 16 Jul 2020, 11:55 am

bbauska wrote:If you want to wear a mask wear one. If not, don't.
If you want your business to allow customers w/o masks, then great. If not, then don't.
If the school wants to be open, but require masks, great. Just leave it up to the parents to decide on attendance within the school policies.

It is a freedom issue. People should have the right to do as they choose within the scope of the requirements a business puts on them. If a business chooses to not serve someone because of what they believe, I am fine with that. If you don't like the business' choices, don't shop there.


In my view this is completely insane, ignorant or depraved. Masks don't protect you, they protect others. We had mixed messaging on masks this spring and that led to field hospitals, refrigerated semi-trailers full of dead bodies, and non-stop ambulance sires in the entire month of April. Hell, we still got 1300 bodies frozen in a warehouse:
https://nypost.com/2020/07/04/more-than-1300-nyc-covid-19-victims-awaiting-burial-in-freezers/

Your family, strangers, neighbors they're all at risk if you don't wear a mask. This is not some theoretical exercise, you can actually kill somebody with this attitude.
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7374
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 16 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

Freeman,
Yes in the military we had to follow the orders given to us (unless they are unlawful). I gave up the freedom by my signature on the dotted line. Yes, I am willing to pay the "consequences", or I would not do the act. (Much like exceeding the speed limit)

RickyP,
https://www.livescience.com/are-face-masks-effective-reducing-coronavirus-spread.html

Some say yes, some say no.

Geojanes,
I know New York has been more heavily hit than other areas of the country. Perhaps this is part of your reaction. Walla Walla County has 45K population and 3 deaths. That is .00006 of the population. What should be done in New York is fine. If it is so needed there, then the people will do the right thing for NY, I am sure. To close the entire nation is an overreach of my freedoms to placate the fears of others. NYC has 22,825 deaths, and 8.399 million population. That is .0027 of the population.

NYC is 452 times more likely to have a COVID death (per capita) than Walla Walla. I would hope that the difference would warrant a different response in combating the economic impact and viral impact.
User avatar
Statesman
 
Posts: 11324
Joined: 15 Aug 2000, 8:59 am

Post 16 Jul 2020, 1:25 pm

Maybe you should read your source, because right in it it says

Editor's Note (June 2 at 11:30 a.m.): A paper discussed below has been retracted by the journal the Annals of Internal Medicine. The authors wrote that their statistical methods could not determine whether the findings were reliable, making the results of the small study "uninterpretable." The study had found that surgical and cotton masks do not effectively contain viral droplets containing SARS-CoV-2. Subsequent research has suggested that face masks are an effective method for containing the spread of the virus, used along with staying six feet apart from other people.


here's better information.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41790 ... ks-prevent
User avatar
Administrator
 
Posts: 7374
Joined: 26 Jun 2000, 1:13 pm

Post 16 Jul 2020, 1:57 pm

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-0948_article

Right from the CDC:


Abstract
Cloth masks have been used in healthcare and community settings to protect the wearer from respiratory infections. The use of cloth masks during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic is under debate. The filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators; however, cloth masks may provide some protection if well designed and used correctly. Multilayer cloth masks, designed to fit around the face and made of water-resistant fabric with a high number of threads and finer weave, may provide reasonable protection. Until a cloth mask design is proven to be equally effective as a medical or N95 mask, wearing cloth masks should not be mandated for healthcare workers. In community settings, however, cloth masks may be used to prevent community spread of infections by sick or asymptomatically infected persons, and the public should be educated about their correct use.


Cloth masks are being mandated. Evidence from the CDC says MAY provide SOME protection.

The use of masks is under debate. Not all "experts" are in agreement. That is my point. RickyP, you quote 1 "expert" and act as if the whole world is in agreement. There are some who agree with you.