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Adjutant
 
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Post 12 Jul 2014, 12:34 pm

I live in Carroll County, Maryland; the Administration has selected the fine town of Westminster, MD (in this county) for one of the sites to take the illegals. The county commissioners, the city's mayor, everyone is trying to stop them. They are going to be housed at a disused Army reserve barracks. In MARYLAND of all places. I sympathize deeply with children who are fleeing some nasty parts of the world. But we cannot just let everyone in.

You mentioned refugees. I wonder if those countries "let" those refugees in out of kindness, or they tried to stop them but could not because there were so many of them. I'm thinking the latter.

P.S.: for those of you outside the United States who do not know, Maryland is nowhere near the border with Mexico. I think about 2,000 miles from it if I am not mistaken.
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Statesman
 
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Post 14 Jul 2014, 6:21 am

hacker
But we cannot just let everyone in.


you aren't. Deportations from the US are at record levels.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... sapproval/

And the one's causing the recent crisis are

Hacker
children who are fleeing some nasty parts of the world.


As a Christian nation, shouldn't these children expect your help?

The problem of immigration is caused by the inability of the political system to work for the benefit of the general populace.
But the large businesses that fight the enforcement of laws that discourage hiring illegals have congress cowed. Why hasn't e-verify succeeeded? Because industries like meat packing, etc. simply enjoy the cost of labour plummetting over the last 30 years due to illegals.
Fate
The accompanying law would also contain draconian penalties for hiring illegals. If the cost is high enough, the practice will cease

This is absolutely true. Especially if the cost were the imprisonment of the company executives.

Why hasn't a path to recognition of illegals who've been in the country for years been accepted? Because it would create too many Democratic voters.... (Unless it were championed by the Repubvlicans who could turn Latinos into republicans if they did so. However the base of the republican party are nativists and tea party know nothings, and before the policy could be sold to the party, the champions would be "primaried"...)

You want to go back to the base problem. (Fate and I actually agree on what to do about illegal immigration msotly, so if we can there, there must be a solution that most Americans could agree on...) Its who controls the American political system. In the case of imigration its the large industries dependent on cheap labour. Labour that is cheaper because its illegally in the country. Illegals can't organize into unions to get decent wages..
As long as they keep paying campaign contributions to the right congressmen, they'll keep immigration in the current mess. And they\ll profit enormously.
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Administrator
 
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Post 14 Jul 2014, 6:36 am

The U.S, is not a Christian nation. There are Christians in it, but I am sure you would be screaming about separation of Church and State if it were a "Christian Nation".

We have been over that before, RickyP. Hacker hasn't seen it, but I will save him the time of that rabbit trail you offer.
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Statesman
 
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Post 14 Jul 2014, 6:55 am

bbauska
The U.S, is not a Christian nation


I was beiing faceitious, in that the major oppostion to whatever Obama does or doesn't do often characterize the US as exactly that...
Besides, it what a majority of Americans believe.... John mcCain included.

According to a survey done by the First Amendment Center, 55% of Americans think that the Constitution actually establishes America as a Christian Nation while 65% believe that America's founders intended America to be a Christian Nation
.

http://atheism.about.com/od/johnmccaino ... ecular.htm
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Ambassador
 
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Post 14 Jul 2014, 2:56 pm

danivon wrote:
Doctor Fate wrote:So, it's fine to break Federal law as long as there is an economic reason to do so? I believe this law says it is not legal for a local government to fail to cooperate with ICE regarding immigration enforcement.
Has it been tested against the Constitution? I'm thinking 9th and 10th Amendments.


Sure. Whatever. That's not really an argument.

When AZ wanted to check to see if someone was illegal, DOJ sued. Now, the Federal government is depositing illegals all over the country--without so much as a courtesy phone call.

And, they're doing a bang-up job.

Adult illegal immigrants posing as unaccompanied alien children appear to be attempting to enroll at public high schools, city officials in Lynn, Mass., tell National Review Online.

“Some of them have had gray hair and they’re telling you that they’re 17 years old and they have no documentation,” Jamie Cerulli, the Lynn mayor’s chief of staff, tells NRO. “If my children went to the public schools, I’d be very uncomfortable with all of these unaccompanied minors [that] are placed in the ninth grade.”

Admission of all foreign students — illegal immigrants, refugees, and foreign nationals — has increased by more than 500 students since the 2010–2011 school year, Catherine Latham, the city’s superintendent of schools, tells NRO. Last school year, nearly 250 students arrived from Guatemala, including 126 enrolled in the ninth grade.

The majority of unaccompanied Guatemalan children arriving in the city hail from the city of San Marcos, Latham says, and are drawn by Lynn’s large Guatemalan population.

NRO has obtained Department of Health and Human Services documents and images of two unaccompanied aliens living in Lynn that appear to challenge the notion that the age information listened for these “children” on their documents is accurate.


They have transported "kids" to Nebraska, Colorado, and who knows where else, without checking them for diseases, etc.

It is lawless. Then again, it's the Obama Administration, so "laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws!"

It's kind of a unique situation because the argument for violating the law sounds so much like economic argument in favor of slavery.
Ironically, the main time we had the economic arguments for slavery were when it was legal.

While the American Right are having kittens about 50,000 kids, there are several times that number in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon who have fled war. I don't think the USA has the biggest problem with refugees.


It's not 50,000 "kids." It's what will happen to them (most will not appear for their hearing) and it's what will attend them--poverty, benefits, more "kids" following them in--and all of their family somewhere down the road.

Furthermore, I heard the "journalist," Cokie Roberts, on "This Week" yesterday. She said we have an obligation to take every child whose country is not as safe as NYC.

That could be 10's or 100's of millions--if that's the standard we land on.

Oh, and the President wants to spend $3.7B to "solve" this. Really? What will the money do? Faster processing? Great, but what about stopping all the illegals still coming? What about changing the law that he alleges is the problem?

Oh, and I don't notice Great Britain clamoring to take tens of thousands of impoverished, unskilled, aliens into their country. If you want them, we can fly them to you.
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Post 14 Jul 2014, 3:09 pm

rickyp wrote:hacker
But we cannot just let everyone in.


you aren't. Deportations from the US are at record levels.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... sapproval/


That's crap.

Perhaps the best way to understand how Obama can be simultaneously perceived as tough and soft on immigration enforcement is to consider that, under his administration, not all unauthorized immigrants are treated equal.

As far as enforcement is concerned, the Southwest border and the rest of the country might as well have different immigration laws. At the same time that Border Patrol has been ramping up the consequences of unauthorized crossings, ICE agents have been ordered to use so-called prosecutorial discretion in deporting non-citizens caught away from the border.

The shift from informal returns (quietly sending undocumented immigrants back to their home country on a bus) to formal removals that has contributed significantly to Obama’s deportation record, actually started in 2005 under the Bush administration to “strengthen deterrence against repeat crossings, disrupt smuggling networks, and raise the cost of illegal entry,” the report notes.

Eighty-three percent of people apprehended at the Southwest border were “returned” in 2005, as opposed to only 21 percent in 2012.


In other words, by changing some definitions, the Administration has inflated its statistics.

Same article:

Eighty-five percent of undocumented immigrants identified through Secure Communities last year were not deported. Yet 88 percent of people who were deported via Secure Communities had been convicted of a crime.

Before declaring a victory for the Obama administration for successfully targeting and deporting criminals, however, it’s worth considering what kinds of criminals are being removed.

“Most of the growth of removals consists of people who’ve been convicted of an immigration crime,” Rosenblum said Tuesday at a panel discussion on the report. “About half of all illegal aliens deported since 2009 have either been immigration crimes or non-violent misdemeanors.”


And, if the border is so secure and ICE is so successful, how does one explain this:

Authorities in Parker County have arrested a man suspected of molesting a 9-year-old girl as she slept in her home. The man, 35-year-old Israel Andrade, has been deported from the United States on four different occasions.

Parker County Sheriff’s deputies responded to a 9-1-1 call on Saturday, after a woman called to report her daughter had been sexually fondled by a stranger who broke into her home.

The 9-year-old victim, who had been sleeping on the family couch with siblings, told deputies that she was awakened by a man who was groping her in her private areas.

The girl said the man spoke in broken English with a heavy Spanish accent, asking her to follow him back to the bedroom where he entered the home. Instead, the girl ran screaming into her parents’ room, while the suspect fled in the opposite direction.

The parents attempted to call 9-1-1, but noticed that their cell phones and computer were missing. The mother drove to a nearby convenience store to alert authorities.

During the investigation, a set of footprints was discovered outside the home and traced to a neighbor’s home. Deputies determined that Andrade had visited the neighbor’s home the prior evening.

The suspect was located asleep in a relative’s home approximately one mile from the crime scene. He was found sleeping on one of the stolen phones.

Two pairs of the child’s panties, along with a pair of tennis shoes with a similar tread as found at the crime scene, were also discovered at the residence.

Andrade was arrested and charged with burglary of a habitation with intent to commit another felony — indecency with a child by sexual contact — a first-degree felony.

According to records from the Immigration and Naturalization Service, Andrade had been deported from the U.S. on four different occasions: July 2003, Feb. 2004, Sept. 2009 and again in Dec. 2010.

Relatives say that Andrade arrived in Texas from Mexico about 30 days ago.

Parker County Sheriff Larry Fowler expressed his frustration with the current state of the Texas-Mexico border.

“Our border Sheriffs and the Texas Department of Public Safety are doing a phenomenal job with the current laws and available resources,” Fowler said. “Yet, our Federal Government needs to step forward and aid us in enforcing the laws on our southern border. This type of injustice cannot be allowed to pass by for a sixth time.”

He continued, “How long will we have to tolerate this type of injustice? It is time for American citizens to make a stand and begin petitioning for tighter security at our borders in order to protect our citizens.”


As a Christian nation, shouldn't these children expect your help?


That's a lame argument anyway. How do "children" navigate their way through Mexico?

Fate
The accompanying law would also contain draconian penalties for hiring illegals. If the cost is high enough, the practice will cease

This is absolutely true. Especially if the cost were the imprisonment of the company executives.


If someone knowingly hires illegals, they should get 5 years per violation--no less. That would stop it cold in its tracks.

Why hasn't a path to recognition of illegals who've been in the country for years been accepted? Because it would create too many Democratic voters....


No, that's a small part of it. The other part is because there is no guarantee that we won't just see this repeat itself. In fact, based on the last "amnesty" and where we are now, it's highly likely. Most Americans favor a "path." I do. However, I don't favor a path without some kind of guarantee that we won't replay this again.

That's why there has to be a system in place to prevent them from working and/or receiving government benefits. No work = no illegal immigration.