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- bbauska
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03 May 2013, 11:56 am
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/02/1206405/-Cole-Winthrow-Expelled-Faces-Felony-Gun-Charges-Protest-Goes-ViralI understand the reason that boy got arrested. I think he broke the law. (Personally, I would have driven off campus and took the gun home)
Did the school act properly?
What should his punishment be?
Does this promote honesty or deceit?
My answers:
Yes
As per the law
Deceit
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- danivon
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03 May 2013, 12:12 pm
My answers:
At first, but I would expect them to be able to apply some leniency on mitigation - rather than a year's expulsion, a short suspension seems reasonable - which is what they did when an assistant principle apparently made a similar mistake. Reporting it as a felony is not consistent with their treatment of others either.
A nominal fine would seem appropriate, assuming a jury finds him guilty, which they may well not given that
Not sure on that one. In hindsight, he'd have been better off going home and risk being punished for skipping a class. Is that 'deceitful'?
Generally, the law will punish people dumb enough to make it known they are breaking it, that's just a feature of reality.
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- Ray Jay
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04 May 2013, 5:13 am
I think the school is overreacting. That's just a normal stupid thing that people that age will do. Given that he appears to be a good student with a clean record, and treid to miigate the situation as soon as he realised it, the school is going way too far.
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- rickyp
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04 May 2013, 12:43 pm
Steve Martin said that "I forgot" was always a good excuse.
I forgot it was illegal to rob a bank...
In this case : I forgot I had a gun, doesn't seem responsible either
There's quite a bit of latitude in the penalty under the law.... But I agree that the school didn't have much choice on the process. A minimal punishment, perhaps just the fine, might be appropriate . But the courts are better placed to offer a fully informed opinion than the readers of the article
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- bbauska
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04 May 2013, 3:31 pm
So you think people breaking the law should be punished? I do too.
Hooray! Common Ground!
Perhaps we should try the illegal immigration and welfare fraud issues to the same standard...
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- rickyp
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05 May 2013, 7:59 am
bbauska, support for punishment of someone breaking the law in one case is NOT support for someone breaking any law.
It is possible to look at the circumstance of any case and consider each for its own merits. There are, after all, still in existence thousands of really stupid laws.... In Lee County Alabama it is illegal to sell peanuts after sundown - on Wednesday. I'd really have to be convinced of the rationale for such a law before bothering to enforce it... And there are lots of laws of laws like that.
Some important. Some not.
http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/alabamaJust because a law exists doesn't it mean it makes sense, or that it should be prosecuted...
Were you alive in 1858, would you return an escaped slave, just because that was the law? Or would you make the moral choice and provide the person with assistance?
I think its perfectly reasonable to try and keep guns out of a school environment. Young people don't have great impulse control. Too often guns in schools have resulted in death or injury.
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- GMTom
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06 May 2013, 8:10 am
What should have happened is for that person who overheard the conversation of a good kid trying to do the right thing would be for him to ignore he heard it but keep a close eye on the situation, making sure the mother did come and remove it, making sure the kid did not return to his car before that time. But that would simply make too much sense now wouldn't it and in fact fits perfectly with Ricky's above rationale (though he wants to prosecute here?)
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- freeman2
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06 May 2013, 11:27 am
It's pretty clear that the student did not bring the gun to school intentionally. After all, the school only found out about it because he called his mother asking her to come get it. Perhaps a malicious prosecution lawsuit would wake the school up to its overreach
Separately, the school could discipline the student, but the penalties ahead of time should be written out and not excessive. Given the lack of intent, I think a modest suspension is appropriate. Judgment has to be exercised here. People get frustrated when judges are given a lot of discretion, but the reality is when you have fixed rules with fixed unvarying penalties you get a lot of unjust outcomes (see Three Strikes Laws and Federal Sentencing Guidelines with regard to drugs). This school has treated a non-intentional taking of a gun to school exactly as if someone were intentionally taking a gun to school. That is unjust.