tom

Ricky, This is a report based on perceptions of the party, it is what people believe not what is factual

1) Its a report and recommendation by the GOP itself.
2) In a democracy people vote on their perceptions because what they perceive IS the reality.
So for a party to fool themselves into thinking they are something different then what they are perceived to be ..... is a dead end.
Its the same thing with thinking that policies that have been losers with the electorate can be winners if only the messaging is modified. In the end, voters will decide for themselves whether or not the policies, however they are framed or delivered, are in their best interests...You can only dress up a turd so much... .

So far, there is a reluctance from many republicans to embrace the fact that the world has changed... and that they propose many policies that are not popular. Because they aren't in the best interests of the voters....That reluctance to accept change was reflected at CPAC. The same nutty speakers repeating their inanities (Palin, Bachman). The tolerance for apologists of slavery ... The same rote on taxation and smaller government...
Why would voters perceptions change? Why, for example, would any black person vote for a party who were willing to give time to apologists of slavery?

republicans can either accept that they must change core policy positions or face becoming irrelevant to so many minorities (blacks, hispanics, women) that they can't ever achieve a majority...
I doubt that there is a genuine recognition of this by the majority of the party. I think that most are willing to exist in their silos and engage only with like minded and like speaking people.
I suspect that is probably the significant difference with the Dems... They aren't dug into their silos as deeply...and because they depend upon a coalition of minorities and the younger voter.... have to be more flexible.

GMTom wrote:Both are bad, I mentioned that several times,

Indeed you did. Repetition can be very boring.

later I made an observation that the Dems may very well be worse and that's all you hear?

No, it's not all I read. It's just the underlying theme that you have. No different to others who maintain that the Republicans may very well be worse.

Go ahead and post about other world events and other countries politics, really please do! But to be honest, most of us Americans barely know about our own country let alone any others. You are correct about "most" Americans not caring about politics that do not affect us, guilty as charged! but that being said, who isn't guilty to at least some degree? People in the UK and Canada are affected by US politics more than are those in the US affected by UK or Canadian politics so it would follow that US politics would take a more prominent role in these discussions, I am not trying to apologize for American ignorance but am, I think, trying to lessen that ignorant aspect (though still quite guilty!)

Ahem. I think you misread my words. I did not assert that Americans were ignorant and incurious. I wrote that this was the stereotype, and invited the Americans on here to try and disprove it.

I get that any discussion of world affairs would likely involve the US, and any discussion of a nation's political issues which has Americans participating in it will likely include aspects such as the effect on US politics. But I would like to think we could get out of the rut of ending almost every discussion with a simple partisan breakdown, and it all being about the positions of the two parties (or individuals associated with them).

What was so disappointing about discussion on Libya here (before the events of 11 Sept last) was that it was less about what was going on and more about whether some could blame Obama (or someone else in the US) over some aspect. After the Benghazi attacks, that is what it has almost exclusively become.

It would be nice if, just for once, we could look at something from a different angle. It would certainly help if you are trying to be less ignorant.

as far as people thinking slavery of any kind or at any time being good, I don't think you will find many at all! Some no doubt and even one is one too many but that number is VERY low, lower than I think you want to assume.

How low do you think I want to assume? What makes you think I assume anything? Maybe I've based my concerns on experience rather than assumption? All you know from what I've written is that I think it is more than 2.

btw, Ricky - not really helping.

Danivon:

Ahem. I think you misread my words. I did not assert that Americans were ignorant and incurious. I wrote that this was the stereotype, and invited the Americans on here to try and disprove it.

Some are and some aren't. I would say we are more insular than Europeans because we can be.

So here's something interesting from today's news: Obama brokered a smoothing over between Israel and Turkey. Netanyahu sort of apologized for the 2010 flotilla event, and Erdogan accepted. Turkey and Israel have now restored normal relations and not let that disagreement get in the way of both of their real politic interest.

What do you think Netanyahu got in exchange for offering the apology? Was it Obama's support vis-a-vis Iran, or simply Netanyahu offering goodwill over a relatively successful visit? Or perhaps this is really about events in Syria and the on the ground need for Israel and Turkey to coordinate for their mutual benefit.

My guess is a bit of all the above! But mostly, they have a common interest in Syria.

as far as danivons Americans being ignorant comment, That was what you implied and I agree with it! Not ALL Americans, and those here are not as ignorant as the masses, I did not try to say those here are as ignorant, I am sorry if it came off that way. I think I am agreeing with you more than you may think! I am not being partisan, I am replying to the incredibly partisan remarks saying only Republicans seem to be "lost" while Dems are united, nothing but party politics that ignore the facts and do as you say ...play partisan nonsense. That is what I am trying to avoid, but it gets ignored and regurgitated over and over.

and Ricky,
that report was about perception and perception is not reality my friend. The MSM has done an excellent job of positioning Republicans in this way, it was posted here as well and many try to have us believe this really IS the situation, it is not and I and others gave some examples that you refuse to listen to and instead post an opinion as your facts saying otherwise. Your statement does nothing but continues to show you following the party line marching orders and sound bites, we showed examples of how the statement is wrong, you ignore the Democrats who are just as foolish as the foolish Republicans and go on to complain about Republicans ignoring the great many idiot Democrats, please tell us how those Democrats are just so unified when we showed they indeed are not.

GMTom wrote:My guess is a bit of all the above! But mostly, they have a common interest in Syria.

Tom, I started a new thread on that.

as far as danivons Americans being ignorant comment, That was what you implied and I agree with it! Not ALL Americans, and those here are not as ignorant as the masses, I did not try to say those here are as ignorant, I am sorry if it came off that way. I think I am agreeing with you more than you may think!

I was not implying it. You clearly inferred it, but not from intent on my part. Please stop deciding what I mean by 'filling in the blanks'. Try reading the words I write and comprehending them for what they are, rather than just assuming what I 'meant' or 'implied' and replying to that.

I was talking about the stereotype. A stereotype is not reality, it is a perception (moreover a caricature of that perception). You claim yourself that 'perception is not reality'. Accordingly, I was not saying that I think the stereotype is true. In many cases I know that it is not.

Tom, this is the reality:

The Republican Party’s ratings now stand at a 20-year low, with just 33 percent of the public holding a favorable view of the party and 58 percent judging it unfavorably, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey. Although the Democrats are better regarded (47 percent favorable and 46 percent unfavorable), the GOP’s problems are its own, not a mirror image of renewed Democratic strength.

The party’s base is increasingly dominated by a highly energized bloc of voters with extremely conservative positions on nearly all issues: the size and role of government, foreign policy, social issues, and moral concerns. They stand with the tea party on taxes and spending and with Christian conservatives on key social questions, such as abortion rights and same-sex marriage.

These staunch conservatives, who emerged with great force in the Obama era, represent 45 percent of the Republican base. According to our 2011 survey, they are demographically and politically distinct from the national electorate. Ninety-two percent are white. They tend to be male, married, Protestant, well off and at least 50 years old

.

Pew found that 54 percent of staunch conservatives report that they regularly watch Fox News, compared with 44 percent who read a newspaper and 30 percent who watch network news regularly. Newspapers and/or television networks top all other news sources for other blocs of voters, both on the right and on the left. Neither CNN, NPR or the New York Times has an audience close to that size among other voting blocs.

Conservative Republicans make up as much as 50 percent of the audiences for Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’ Reilly. There is nothing like this on the left. MSNBC’s “Hardball” and “The Rachel Maddow Show” attract significantly fewer liberal Democrats

.

washington post March 22, Andrew Kohut: The numbers prove it: The GOP is estranged from America

and the Democrats are any better? This is exactly what I was complaining about, the lefties continually point to a fractured Republican party dominated by the far right. This is certainly partly true but in their zeal to point this out, the Democrat lefties conveniently avoid mentioning how their own party is every bit as divided and fractured. When the Republicans were in total control we heard how the Dems would be back and of course they would be back. But now, now it's the Republican party is dead, they are buried, they will never come back and that is really short sightedness, they will again regain power (and then the Dems will regain, then Republicans etc) This is nothing more than very obvious partisan politics only, quite tired of seeing it so much to be honest, can I do the same when the Democrats are in their soon to occur slump?