steve

Yes, whatever happened to reasonable Democrats, like Bill Clinton?

I beleive he is enthusiastically campaigning for Obama...

rickyp wrote:steve

Yes, whatever happened to reasonable Democrats, like Bill Clinton?

I beleive he is enthusiastically campaigning for Obama...

Enthusiastically?

So with the recent poor economic results, the left wing (SIC) political blogs from the US are suddenly rife with discussions of KOLOB and other peculiar beliefs of the Mormon religion...

I guess its kind of predictable... But I wonder Steve, how you as a fundamental Christian (if I describe your belief system wrong I apologize) respond to this inspection of Mitts religion. And his participation within the Church hierarchy?
Is it entirely fair to question Obama's attendance of Rev. Wrights church and not question Mitts participation in his Church?
Moreover, how do you personally feel about a man who has a wholehearted belief in Smith?
I know we've covered some of this before, but until now there hasn't been a resort to much of this from the US left before and it seems to be heating up....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z2

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

(Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, verse 1, page 40)

Mitts campaign has a litmus test for what they consider fair. They place the word Jew or Jewish where the descriptor was Mormon or Church of latter Day Saints. If it seems anti semetic, then the use is out of line. Thats interesting, but I think that comparing the recent Church of Latter Day Saints with longer established belief systems isn't necessarily contributing to the legitimacy of Mormon beliefs but is also contributing to the questioning of the more established beliefs.
(What are Smiths Golden Plates so different then Moses tablets?)

I don't question the value of the Church in Mitts up bringing. he seems today like a decent man, who has been formed in large part by his experience in the Church. But what i'm wondering is whether a spot light on his Churches beliefs will actually have an impact. First on the campaign. Second, on the long term attitude towards all religion in the west?

rickyp wrote:So with the recent poor economic results, the left wing (SIC) political blogs from the US are suddenly rife with discussions of KOLOB and other peculiar beliefs of the Mormon religion...

I guess its kind of predictable.

I grew up in the LDS church. I left it in my late 20's. I have many, many good friends in the church and many family members. I told them a month or two ago that they should expect the media to beat this drum--to the extent that more voters will be able to find Kolob on a Galactic map than can find Pakistan on a globe.

So, yes, it's "predictable." Why? Because the press realizes President Obama won't win without destroying the credibility of his opponent. The only other way to win is to win on his record . . . that's not happening.

how [do] you as a fundamental Christian (if I describe your belief system wrong I apologize) respond to this inspection of Mitts religion.

You call me a fundamentalist? I kill you!

Okay, just a little "fundie humor."

I respond no differently than when McCain was running. I respond no differently than when Huckabee was a candidate--or Bush, Dole, Reagan, whoever.

I look at the issues. We never have elected a "theologian-in-chief."

And his participation within the Church hierarchy?

I daresay I have more personal experience than most here. Raise your hand if you've been baptized for the dead.

I think it would be a mistake to say he was in the Church "hierarchy." Bishops are very ordinary men. Unlike pastors of most denominations, they do not get paid. Of course, they also have no formal theological education, do not "preach" in the traditional sense, and are more figureheads in many ways. Romney was also a Stake President. That is a more serious role, but still not "general authority" level. A Stake President presides over 6-10 wards (congregations), unless they've changed things.

If you understand the hierarchy, they've got the First Presidency, the Apostles, and then other, lesser "general authorities." A stake president is fairly high, but he would not be someone recognized outside of his local region.

With that as a preamble, I have no doubt the press will try to put Joseph Smith, Kolob, the notion of God being once a man, and many other unique Mormon doctrines, around Romney's neck. After all, being in an unusual religion means he's not presidential, right?

Is it entirely fair to question Obama's attendance of Rev. Wrights church and not question Mitts participation in his Church?

First, I would challenge you on your premise. How many times was candidate Obama confronted with the things Wright said? Was he asked about the church's stated preference for "black" businesses? There are a lot of race-related questions pertaining to that church that no one had the guts to ask Obama. Why not? Because they would have been subjected to charges of racism--or worse.

There's a lot we still don't know about President Obama. We know he made up a "girlfriend" in his autobiography. We know that two recent books by Maraniss and Klein have been shunned by the mass media, even though Klein had many, many hours of taped interviews.

On the other hand, the press pounced on the GWB-bashing "Fortunate Son." The author was an ex-con who had not a shred of evidence and eventually the publisher pulled the book.

How much time was spent on Obama's drug use? Do we know the extent? What did he write on in college? What were his grades? What were his activities?

Moreover, how do you personally feel about a man who has a wholehearted belief in Smith?

That it is wholly unrelated to his ability to be a President. People believe a lot of things. If you knew the Mormon culture, you'd realize this is just not something that is critically examined.

I know we've covered some of this before, but until now there hasn't been a resort to much of this from the US left before and it seems to be heating up....

Let's put it this way: not only is the economy going sideways, but Wisconsin looks like it's going to be a nice Republican win this Tuesday. That may even put a perceived blue State in play.

It's time for Obama's cheerleaders, aka "the press," to pull out all the stops for their man. They've written several WH-authorized puff pieces about how tough Obama is. That hasn't moved the needle yet, so they've got to go on offense.

I don't question the value of the Church in Mitts up bringing. he seems today like a decent man, who has been formed in large part by his experience in the Church. But what i'm wondering is whether a spot light on his Churches beliefs will actually have an impact. First on the campaign. Second, on the long term attitude towards all religion in the west?

Since most people know little about the Bible (and are generally wrong about what they do "know"), I don't think this will help the President. What he needs is some leadership on economic matters. After that, some results would be nice.

In light of the "import" of the Romney HS story, I thought our liberal friends might find this enlightening--Obama lied in his autobiography about the role race played on his high school basketball team.

In one of the scenes with Keith Kakugawa, the character he called Ray in his memoir, Dreams from My Father, Obama broached the subject of basketball style, complaining that he did not get the breaks of other players on the team because “they play like white boys do” and that was the style preferred by the coach. Since Kakugawa was two years ahead of Barry, if this conversation took place he would have had to have been a sophomore, a fact that raises two contradictions. First, as a sophomore he was a long ways from making Varsity AA, and second, the head coach he was complaining about, Chris McLachlin, was on temporary leave during Obama’s sophomore year and did not return until the following season, when Kakugawa was gone.

In other words, Obama wrote an account of a conversation with Kakugawa that didn’t happen, in which he supposedly raised a complaint of race-based bias that didn’t exist.

I'll anxiously await the piling on. I mean, hey, if Obama lied as an adult . . .

PS: no, I'm not suggesting we look at his high school days in depth. I do think we begin to understand the President by the falsehoods he presents about his life and about others in his books.