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NASCAR Driver (Pro V)
 
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Post 04 May 2021, 5:53 pm

Please post your thoughts on the trial rules and the race here.
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NASCAR Driver (Pro V)
 
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Post 04 May 2021, 6:56 pm

From Don:
No dice was a nice test, but it just makes things too predictable too far out. For those who dislike dice, then perhaps rules that make dice use increasingly difficult might be a more doable thing.
Indy Car Driver (Pro IV)
 
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Post 04 May 2021, 7:22 pm

I like the "less randomness" of no dice, but it definitely limits your moves. Maybe the idea of a dice counter. After x number of die rolls you start accruing "anti-skill" points that add to your roll.

I was intrigued by the challenge passing, although I think I would expand it to challenging in one lane. For the example I gave (right after the beginning of the race), why should it matter if someone is in the second lane. I pay my 1 skill to share a lane to get the advantage of the better path. No line for the passer, but many of these turns don't have lines anyway. 1 skill might be too little to pay for that opportunity. In general it might should cost 2s.

Example from email posted as separate comment below.

Thanks for the experiment Mike. I had fun. I usually do.
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Post 04 May 2021, 7:24 pm

This was a question I posted early in the race which demonstrates my "challenge passing" lane comment.

I think this is clear and assumed, but I'll say it "out loud" to confirm.

There definitely has to be 2 cars in the contiguous space already. I can't challenge pass in the 80 if the 100 is open, correct? I could see the desire just to stay in the shorter path, like in Bendor. But I would be bumped out into 100 lane since I couldn't make it past the car (force pass) or even with the car (challenge pass).

See example attached. Consider 3 cars in black, then all four cars (adding red W). Don goes 100 for 1w thru 80s and pops out of corner. Brent goes 80 and stuffs the 80 space. If no Will, Chris can't make it thru the corner. He is forced outside (C1). HOWEVER, if Will is there and goes thru 80s/100s for 2w, stuffing the 100 space, THEN Chris could challenge pass thru the 80s for 1w and 1s (C2).

Allowing Chris to challenge pass in the 80 without Will there would really open up the passing lanes. Maybe too much so. So it's not allowed, right?
Challenge Pass Example.png
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Post 04 May 2021, 7:58 pm

No need to thank me - I'm just a hired gun here. I think Don and John did most of the hard pulling with setting up the rules.

As an observer, I found the race a bit dull. Yes your moves are limited but you also know that your rival's moves are limited. I think CFR is such a great game because of the uncertainty of what the other drivers might do. Reduce the range of possible actions on the track and it starts to become more of a puzzle to figure out.

While not a fan, the nuances of challenge passing are of interest to me since we use the rules in the DMV group. I'd like to hear Don's thoughts on your hypothetical.
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Post 05 May 2021, 1:11 pm

As for comments on the actual race:

Track/Build: My test laps led me to the 60/20/160 car that I built. Somehow I thought I would hold on to a lead longer than I did. The track was fairly tight with the long backstretch. Would a lower top speed be my downfall?

Bid: I wanted first row, and ended up first at 5, which was fine. Didn't think I had overspent, and still don't.

Race: At Turn 16 I knew I had no chance. I really expected to be ahead with a gap. Instead I was tied with Don and quickly lost the lead. Tied with one extra wear and lower Top.

Somehow I hung on for most of the lap and we were still tied in Turn 22. My only chance was to pull away, so I spent wear to clear the three marked corners and get to the home stretch ahead. It turned out to be the right move as I hung on.

As Don commented in the email: If he and Phil had traded double slips, it might have gotten very tight. When both went 140 coming out of Saint Beaume, it started to look better for me.

Comments for rules in other post. I definitely missed the variability of racer actions. Things were much clearer defined/expected than usual.

- Stephen/Peeps/BP
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Post 05 May 2021, 3:25 pm

Both lanes must be occupied for a challenge pass (CP) to take place. One of the few things I"m not sure of is, in the given example, is whether or not to allow drivers the option of using either lane to approach as they come in or forcing them to use the 'longest' lane. Mike?
As for costing 2 skill, I have to repeat some earlier remarks regarding challenge passing. The object is to make it fairly easy to challenge pass. Why? Because it is quite difficult to move up from the back on most parts of most tracks. It's just not realistic to heavily restrict where passing can take place in a 3 lap race! Passing is what racing is all about! More is better! CP allows you to make more more realistic driving decisions as opposed to dogging it around the pack in the rear because there is no place to pass on many tracks. The track we just raced did not have enough traffic to utilize CP, plus it was a fast track and lots of 3 wide which also reduces the CP opportunities.
And, the easier you make CP, the more often trail cars can force the leaders to either speed up or get passed (duh, like a real race works!). I think it is very unrealistic for quite a few tracks to allow a leader to just poke around the track because you just can't move up at all through a big pack of cars on a two lane track. Boring!!
I've got wear, speed, and skill, I'm moving up and you can either speed up or get passed!!
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Post 06 May 2021, 7:08 am

dtatum wrote:Both lanes must be occupied for a challenge pass (CP) to take place. One of the few things I"m not sure of is, in the given example, is whether or not to allow drivers the option of using either lane to approach as they come in or forcing them to use the 'longest' lane. Mike?

It works conceptually - you're squeezing between the outside car and the barrier - but I'm not sure it solves the dilemma of requiring both lanes to be filled. In fact, that would argue against it. If you're going between the outside car & barrier why does it matter if the inside lane has a car?