GMTom wrote:sorry, I still can't agree with Randy
Not all craft beers are good, he is 100% correct there no doubt! Long Point springs to mind here, many think this stuff is sooo good, it's no better than average to me.
But the big guys, I drove home thinking about what I had said, "no "good" larger beers"
I would say Michelob Amber Boch is good (not great but a "good" beer in my book) That's about it! Some are a step above fair but not quite good... Killians comes to mind.

I agree with Randy. I find most craft beer expensive and lousy.

But for me anyway, this assessment has more to do with my own personal taste. In part inspired by this thread, I thought about why I liked MGD and even PBR in a can over most craft beer and it has to do, I think, with hops. I don't like it. The more hops the less good a beer is to me, and since so many craft beers are hoppy, I don't like them.

I discovered a new beer in this exploration that I like a lot: Shocktop, a wheat beer, without all the hoppy/maltiness of more standard brews.

Funny thing, I just had that Santa Claus stuff just last weekend!
It was too strong for my tastes and I didn't care for how sweet it was ...incredibly sweet, not what i expect from a beer. But I appreciate some of the many comments made here, Randy likes this strong and sweet stuff and that's good for him! SloTerp loves hops while geojanes hates hops and that's good for both of them. If you just love PBR, then it's wonderful that you found something you enjoy!

However, I have found for me and for several of my friends and neighbors that your tastes may very well change over time and especially after experimenting with different varieties. You might hate hops so stay away from hoppy beers! Try something like Amber beers and/or lagers. Hops are all the rage right now and many (maybe the majority) of these craft beers are hoppy, stay away and try different types of beers not simply different breweries...if you dislike a pale ale then trying a Stone IPA and then trying an IPA from Ithaca, no kidding you might say "Craft Brews suck" You need to experiment on the TYPE or Variety of beer not on different breweries. Once you find a style you enjoy THEN try that same style by different breweries to fine tune your search.

And the mention of the big guys not having to compete with the craft guys...oh, no,no,no. The big breweries are losing market share by the day, they are being hammered by the craft movement and have made many moves to compete.
Some examples:

Blue Moon and Shock Top have been mentioned here as "Craft", not so! Blue Moon is Coors, Shock Top is Anheuser Busch, they are positioning these beers as "Craft" while they most certainly are not!

Anheuser Bush recently BOUGHT Goose Island
Goose Island is/was a very good quality craft beer company from Chicago, much is now made in the same huge AB facilities, can't beat 'em, Buy 'em?

a new beer posing as a craft beer called "3rd Shift" is simply a new name for a mass produced Coors swill beer, they are trying to sneak into the craft beer market any way possible.

But these things can be good for the consumer, the big guys are at least trying to change recipes to meet changing tastes. They may not hit on all and they may be trying to cut corners on most but new flavors can appeal to many. Much is bad, a LOT is bad in fact! But it's a grand time to be a beer drinker, these are good times, enjoy them while you can and try different styles!

RUFFHAUS 8 wrote:It's sad that Newcastle chose to dive into the variant beer game. I suppose that they were feeling a loss of market, and felt that they had to. I only drink the Broone!

When I was a teenager, I drank the Brown Ale (which is not the same as the 'Newcastle' you get over there. Now I find it too sweet and sickly for regular drinking. But having tried the US version I find it bland - of course that was after I'd been drinking London Pride, so it could have been the contrast.

Newcastle used to be part of Scottish and Newcastle, who also owned several Scots beer brands (and Theakstons). They are now owned by Heineken, who produce lots of pale lagers with global names. So it's not a terrible thing for them to try and diversify. You don't like the beer? fine.

geojanes - I like hoppy beers (the 'Sussex Best' style is hoppier than the standard English Best Bitters, and that's what I was brought up on, along with normal IPA), and I like very hoppy beers too. But I do find that the American craft market is swamped with super-hopped IPAs (often double the hops of an English IPA, and using more fresh hops at the end rather than dried before the mash).

However, there are plenty of styles from smaller breweries in the US that are not like that. Porters and Stouts for example (a Stout is a more malted Porter). Founders Porter (Michigan) and Anchor Porter (SF) are great examples. When it comes to Stouts there are a lot of 'flavoured' stouts rather than standard ones, but I would say that a coffee flavoured Stout can be very nice when chilled. If you can get hold of Samuel Smiths stouts out there, I'd give them a try - knocks that Guinness into a cocked hat!

If the dark beer doesn't appeal, Brown Ales are much less hoppy and so is 'Blonde' (which has a similar taste to lagers but less fizz and more body like a real ale). If you really like the malty flavours, try a Nut Brown beer.

There are some English styles that might do well out in the US and are less hoppy. Also, American hops are a lot sharper than the traditional European varieties (although we are increasingly using American hops in the UK)

Here's one I think that the US is missing -

Mild: tends to be lower ABV, can be any colour from brown through red to almost stout black. No strong flavour as it is mainly based on pale malt or mild malt (with smaller quantities of crystal or chocolate malt) and very lightly hopped, but when done well very refreshing on a hot day. Also used to mix with other beers half-and-half.

Tends not to be bottled, though.

Blonde Ale is a good recommendation for a good starting point when trying different styles. It's a close semblance to what one may already be familiar with in the big mass produced American beers, a real nice starting point! I also mentioned Kolsch earlier, this is another nice refreshing not too hoppy beer. And myself, I really like Vienna Lager and Amber styles, most are not too hoppy (stay away from Troegs they flow a traditional Amber over a bed of hops that gives the best of both styles but if you aint into hops, you aint into Troegs!)
another good start is to experiment with some of the big beer alternates. A couple nice beers that got me moving was Killians (by Coors) and Amber Boch (By Anheuser Busch) these may not be as "crafty" but might be a nice welcome introduction to other styles of beer?

Tom makes a good point that it's a zenith for beer culture. You can't drive anywhere without being near a couple craft breweries. And honestly price is hardly a factor. Walmart sells many regional PNW craft beers by the case. Would you rather have 24 of Sessions like John Hamm here for $22, or 24 of Coors for $20? Of course there's no right answer dammit it's your money after all. But typically craft beer is only about a 15-25% additional premium. It's a small price for a bit of regional culture.

Craft Brewing Facts

Craft brewers currently provide an estimated 108,440 jobs in the U.S., including serving staff in brewpubs.

Growth of the craft brewing industry in 2012 was 15% by volume and 17% by dollars compared to growth in 2011 of 13% by volume and 15% by dollars.

Craft brewers sold an estimated 13,235,917 barrels* of beer in 2012, up from 11,467,337 in 2011.

The craft brewing sales share in 2012 was 6.5% by volume and 10.2% by dollars.

Craft brewer retail dollar value in 2012 was an estimated $10.2 billion, up from $8.7 billion in 2011.

As of March 18, 2013, the Brewers Association is aware of 409 brewery openings in 2012 (310 microbreweries and 99 brewpubs) and 43 brewery closings (18 microbreweries and 25 brewpubs).
2,347 craft breweries operated for some or all of 2012, comprised of 1,132 brewpubs, 1,118 microbreweries and 97 regional craft breweries.

Not beer I'm enjoying right now (none left in the fridge ...boo)
But it's raining, a chill is in the air and I have nowhere to be. Time to open up something that has remained "dormant" all summer long...
Let me first say I am not a fan of whiskey, I have had plenty and even have a bottle in the my cupboard (for every so often occasions) but I REALLY enjoy Fireball Whiskey and recommend it to all (except whiskey purists that is) It's Canadian Whiskey with HEAVY cinnamon flavoring, it really does taste like an atomic fireball and is especially good on the rocks on a cool autumn or winter night, The whiskey of course warms to the bone but the hot cinnamon flavor, mmmmm I got a mellow buzz going right now!

I'm drinking whisky right now as it happens. None of your uber-sweet North American rubbish though. Oh no, I'm on the supermarket own brand single malt !

In all honesty it's actually really good. Tesco do an Islay single malt whisky with their own branding. Think Laphroaig only not quite as good (but honestly not all that much worse). The difference is that it's only £15.75 a bottle, whereas a bottle of Laphroaig would set you back about £50. It's amazing how much difference a top brand name has on the price.

Finally got one from your neck of the woods, Tom: Southern Tier's Harvest Ale. There's some spices in there but not overpowering. What I didn't expect was the amount of hops - not what you'd usually find in a fall seasonal. That doesn't bother me, of course. Anyway, you get a nice mix of the citrusy hops with the spices and caramel malts. This beer seems a little confused but it works for me.

The Laphroaig 10yo happens to be the one I hear about the most.

Southern Tier is a very good brewery! They seem to hop just about everything they make (at least those that I have tried). One of their real special brews is out now and after hearing so much about it, I finally had one a couple weeks ago...
Southern Tiers PumpKing, a pumpkin flavored beer. If you want a spicy, different beer, this is THE beer in that group. It was a cool stretch and Fall was in the air, I bought 7 different pumpkin beers enjoyed over a weekend. PumpKing was hands down the best of the bunch! Another thing I would recommend is to NOT do what I did and have so many pumpkin (or ANY "flavored" beers) so close to each other These are ok, even good as an occasional treat but not a session beer! PumpKing was a nice and different beer that just tasted like a cool autumn afternoon, outstanding! But again, while outstanding, please only one every so often...maybe a handful a YEAR would be fine by me.

I've never found a pumpkin ale that grabs me. I'm willing to take Tom's recommendation on the Southern Tier offering though - I'll report back when I get a hold of one.

I bought a case of the Paulaner you mentioned at Costco last week (the one in Leesburg). It's a pretty good beer but I wish I hadn't bought a case - I feel like it should have more heft to it for an Oktoberfest beer.

I love Negro Modelo. It's pretty much the only beer I order at Mexican restaurants. I've also had the Dos Equis Amber which I recall as being pretty good. Been a long time though.

Never buy a full case on an unknown!
Randy, we agree on beer style more than you think!
The pumpkin beers, I agree about that for the most part, but if you find a good one and only have one, then that ONE (again, not a session beer) then it can be a nice change of pace. The PumpKing is very full bodied and loaded with a nice clove flavor (and other subtleties but clove stood out to me). This is an expensive beer, it comes in a giant 24? ounce bottle and cost about $9+ each bottle (you could get a six pack of something good for that price) but it is certainly "different" and the best of that style by far! (the reviews are also quite good as well). But it isn't for everyone and is a one at a time every so often beer at best!

And I will want to try that one Randy just mentioned, it does not surpise me it is Mexican, they seem to like Vienna Lagers (Dos Equis is that type, though I am no fan of XX)

But Tom... it was Costco!! You can't buy less than a palette of anything and the prices are sooooo good.

Regardless, I will enjoy the beer, just less enthusiastically then some others. The opportunity cost of drinking a 'pretty good' beer is one less 'really good' beer. Of course in my heyday I would have drank them all with the delayed opportunity cost of not being able to function the next day. Ah to be young again...

Beer is great for replacing liquids for bread or other cooking, so no reason whatsoever to worry about a acquiring a few extras.

I mentioned Southern Tiers PumKing and lo and behold, while reading a CBSSportsline piece, he mentioned that very same beer
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... by-nfl-qbs

If you're shopping and want some quality p-beer (brah), try Southern Tier Pumking and Dogfish Punkin. Easily the best two out there.