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Redraw the map as you go

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kendercommander
Dignitary

Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:07 pm

Question/Curiosity: If I'm understanding, movement occurs before draws/erases, so in your example directly above F bre -> ech occurs before ech is split along WAL-ECH-PIC.

So the "French Fleet may move to either ECH or WCH", which seems a little odd as it could never have reached ECH [if ECH existed at the start of the turn -- I know it doesn't, but play along ;-}]; were both partitions reachable from Brest [or had the fleet been there all along], it makes perfect sense, but this reasoning in this example seems to defy purpose [Although search me exactly why England wants MORE sea spaces to defend, anyways....]

Had England divided it MAO-ECH-NTH, then France could retreat to the northerly ECH by the same example, in effect "hopping" forward a space. Same example, really, just a notably different effect because of the arrangement.

Not saying it's wrong, just saying it's... odd. Smile

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posts: 337 | location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | joined: 14 Apr 2007

Douglas E Fresh
Dignitary

Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm not sure what the question is here really - Just be aware that the new border causes F ECH to retreat and that this retreat would take precedence over any units forced to retreat which had been dislodged. Once the border is in place then, of course, it will hamper movement. The unit isn't really 'hopping forward a space' as you put it, because the new distinction is being drawn after the movement! (And also - the examples of DRAW / ERASE orders on my map were merely to provide visual aid to discussing the rules rather than examples of sensible moves Smile

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posts: 454 | location: Kingdom of Loathing (GMT) | joined: 25 Jan 2007

kendercommander
Dignitary

Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:19 pm

No question, really; the order-of-operations just seemed a little odd and I was seeing if I had the rules right. I suppose this way leads to far fewer confusions than splitting/drawing, THEN moving.

I'm incredibly curious, but you've got me about 20 days before Final Exams. So if you still need someone at the end of April, you might have a man! ;-}

posts: 337 | location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | joined: 14 Apr 2007

Douglas E Fresh
Dignitary

Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:44 am

..if it takes as long as the end of April to get going, I might have to make the game a year or two shorter :/

posts: 454 | location: Kingdom of Loathing (GMT) | joined: 25 Jan 2007

blaubohne
Dignitary

Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:45 am

kendercommander wrote:

No question, really; the order-of-operations just seemed a little odd and I was seeing if I had the rules right. I suppose this way leads to far fewer confusions than splitting/drawing, THEN moving.

You nailed it. That part of the rules sort of wrote themselves by thinking on how to resolve the paradoxes that would inevitably show up. And if you want to rationalize it you could always say that the player ordering Bre-ECH orders his fleet to patrol close to the english coast, and then england developes a minefield behind him. If he had to write conditional orders for all possible splits it would be a GM headache (more than it already is...)

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posts: 391 | location: Nyköping, Sweden | joined: 17 Oct 2002

Douglas E Fresh
Dignitary

Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:51 am

Quote:

I think the original diplomap variant this is loosely based on specified that half of the orders should be draw orders and the other half erase orders, to keep the total number of provinces roughly equal to standard.

Have you considered that if a power gets 2+ orders, you would require half of them be draw orders and half erase orders, with the odd order being either a draw or an erase? The number of provinces could still drift over time, but not as drastically as if everyone just submits draw orders.

What do you think of this blaubohne? I'm not sure, but there are various ways we could apply some kind of control/limiting factor on the map getting crazily out of hand.

posts: 454 | location: Kingdom of Loathing (GMT) | joined: 25 Jan 2007

blaubohne
Dignitary

Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:27 pm

I think limiting the numbers of draw-erase order could be a point. It would add another (thin) layer of complexity, but perhaps make the GM.s job easier?

I've edited the rules with some clarifications raised by Sergios questions in the sign-up thread and also made a decision to outlaw "Portugals", i.e. drawing to the same border.

posts: 391 | location: Nyköping, Sweden | joined: 17 Oct 2002

General Grey
Attaché

Mon May 31, 2010 10:28 am

Tried to put this in the thread within the game for the question of whether England can ever win this variant, but I cant post there.
I think England is winable so long as you use a bit more ingenuity to their special orders. Ill give you 1 and you can dream up the other similar ones as they dawn on you.
1901 - England special move
Erase border between Brest and Picardy

This has the effect of cancelling out Frances move to combine picardy and Belgium as you can't have 2 SC's in 1 space. French army in Paris stays where it is - and with some good diplomacy you can take belgium and norway that year.
Same could be done against Germany with holland and russia with sweden. depending on which way you want to go.

Have fun in the game,
General Grey

posts: 230 | location: Wellington, Somerset, England | joined: 06 Jun 2001

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