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Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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 Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:03 am     |
The Royale variant simulates the intricate diplomatic and military struggles of standard diplomacy with the added challenge of dynastic succession.
I’ve often considered hosting a Royale variant but I’ve never been quite content with the fact that the variant does not reproduce the variety of religions which coloured the politics of the period.
The ability to send children to the clergy, to have them advance in rank and eventually attain the rank of Pope is interesting, but what about Orthodox, Muslim or Protestant countries?
I’m hoping that we can have some discussion on the topic and generate some rough ideas.
Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to come up with too much.
For the Muslim countries perhaps the monarch can have up to two wives through which he may beget children. Children from both marriages are able to be assigned to units/clergy but only those from the first marriage will be in line to succeed the throne.
I’d appreciate any thoughts.
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Game History
 Sazerac
 SIIN
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:04 am |
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Snake IV
Emissary
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:33 am   |
When you say "the period", when is that? Checking with the royale rules tells me they are not meant for any specific period. I'd guess we keep to the 15th-17th century though.
The main thing when implementing different religions I think would be how the religions interact. If you only have one Muslim power, and the religions can't interact except with the military units on the board, someone is gonna have a rather different game.
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| posts: 249 | location: On the handle of a dagger. | joined: 23 Jun 2007 |
GMTom
Administrator
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:24 am |
Let me start by saying I did not yet read the rules, I do have a really basic understanding of the game but basic only.
I have been playing Civ4 the past several days and they have religion built into that game, it seems kind of funny when you find the Saudi Empire is the first to discover Judaism or the Indian Empire discover Christianity but it works for the game. Is there a way to simply mix it up such as they do in that game?
As it is, you are changing history with your new births and new marriages and conquering of lands, so why not allow different religions than was the case at that time? If it helps the game, I think it would be embraced by all.
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| posts: 8593 | location: Rochester, NY, North Coast USA | joined: 14 Feb 2000 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:21 pm |
Thanks for the responses.
In terms of time period I'm considering the 17th century. We have the Thirty Years War drawing on religious tensions and the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 with the terms of Cuius regio, eius religio, "whose realm, his religion"
Indeed, interaction between the religions is the important part. I don't think it would be constructive to isolate a country based on its historical religion.
The Civ4 option is an interesting one. Unlike Civ4, Diplomacy Royale doesn't hve a mechanism for countries to "discover" religion, but I think the notion that players do not have to adhere to historical accuracy in terms of their country's creed is a definite plus where game-play is concerned.
What are your thought on allowing countries to change their religion over the course of the game? (Once we figure out what each religion would entail.)
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:25 pm |
I'm planning to use the 1648 variant:
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:31 pm |
As such the religions which would need to be simulated would be:
Eastern Orthodoxy: Russia
Islam: Ottoman Empire
Protestantism: England, Sweden, Denmark-Norway
Catholicism: France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain, France
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Snake IV
Emissary
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:12 pm |
Curious to have a map of a war game from the end of a major war, rather than teh start of it.  It's quite similar to a map called "1600" I find in my RP. Don't know if it came with it. I foudn the rules for tha map here
This is probably not what you hoped to hear, but I think this 1648 map should drop Iceland, Sardinia, the Caspian Sea and Sicily. On the top of my head I think there's reason for Ireland to be English (with an army). It would be historical, as well as giving England a bit more power. With neutral armies in all netural centers at "S 1901", two armies makes England too weak I'd guess.
On the plus side this variant came with the HRE. That is something you could do something fun with, when seeing to the Royale aspects.
And to comment on religion, I think it would make sence that if you are allowed to convert, there's some kind of limitation or punishment to it.
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| posts: 249 | location: On the handle of a dagger. | joined: 23 Jun 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:04 pm |
Yes, the map is available with a Realpolitik file. As for the edits, I'd prefer to test out the variant as it is designed before editing the map.
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Snake IV
Emissary
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Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:46 am |
We must crusade against the evil of islands.
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| posts: 249 | location: On the handle of a dagger. | joined: 23 Jun 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:41 pm |
If we draw elements from the Machiavelli variant, perhaps something like this could be arranged:
Islam
Muslim ruler may have up to two wives simultaneously. Offspring generated from these marriages may be assigned to units/territories.
Clergymen cannot rise about the rank of imam (which we’ll say is equivalent to a priest—meaning that Islamic clergy cannot have a partner in marriage renounce succession)
Protestantism
Marriage writs may be terminated after 1 years notice to the GM (notifying the other partner in the marriage is not necessary)
National Church, therefore crown gains 2 ducats in revenue from every supply centre.
Orthodox
If Orthodox power controls Constantinople the centre generates 4 ducats for the national treasury.
National church, therefore crown gains 2 ducats per supply centre.
Catholic
Pope may annul marriage upon request of one of the partners (effective immediately), otherwise marriages are in effect for the duration of the partner’s lives.
All territories (supply centres/non-supply centres) under the control of a Catholic ruler contribute 1 ducat to the Vatican treasury. This ducat is not deducted from the National Treasury but is independently generated. The funds in this treasury are at the disposal of the Pope. (who is elected by the Cardinals of Catholic countries.)
If a Catholic power controls Rome the centre generates 4 ducats towards the national treasury.
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Snake IV
Emissary
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Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:27 am |
That seems like some good religion characteristics. The only thing that troubles me is that the Orthodox gain is a bit thin unless Constantinople is conquered. Constantinople is a core Ottoman province, and Russia is the only Orthodox power, it seems like a very likely conflict. On the other hand the map is quite friendly to their relations.
I presume marriages would be allowed in between nations of different religions; though, should it require conversation for one character (the bride I suppose)? I know that religion interfere with succession even today; catholics are except from the succession to the British thrown and any Swedish monarch has to be protestant. Though, in the 16th century I know catholic and protestant monarchs succeeded each other, so the question is how it was in 1648. Did the Westphalian peace treaty say anything 'bout it?
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| posts: 249 | location: On the handle of a dagger. | joined: 23 Jun 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:06 pm |
The British Act of Settlement is from 1701 I believe. Any idea about the year for the Swedish one?
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Magister Equitum
Ambassador
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Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:08 pm |
Yes, marriages would be allowed across religions.
Having one of the characters convert is interesting (and consistent with the terms of Westphalia)
What are your thought on this: The power whose clergyman performs the wedding ceremony, his is the religion to which the couple converts...
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| posts: 1920 | location: Canada | joined: 22 Mar 2007 |
Snake IV
Emissary
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Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:38 am |
You need a specific clergy to preform the cerenomy? Oh dear.
Well, it sounds like a neat idea anyhow. I'd go for it.
As for Swedish succession; I am not entirely sure how old the rule is, but I would guess from around 1600, when the last Catholic king had been overthrown by his Protestant uncle. I belive that it was in force by the time queen Christina abdicated and converted to Catholicism at any rate, which was during the thirty years war.
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| posts: 249 | location: On the handle of a dagger. | joined: 23 Jun 2007 |
